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Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by carom on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:29PM (#40555804)
I guess it is that HTMX just feels like one guy's side project. Granted he is great at posting. TFA feels like 37 Signals took the same idea and is trying really hard to sell it.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by artur_roszczyk on Sunday June 02, 2024 @02:29PM (#40556235)
Live views in Phoenix were way before both.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Sunday June 02, 2024 @02:35PM (#40556289)
But not before Intercooler.js (the predecessor to HTMX) or Turbolinks (the predecessor to Hotwire). This is an idea that has been developing for as long as the web itself, I don't think it's important to assign inventorship of the concept as a whole to any one project. They've all been learning from each other and innovating in their own ways.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by basch on Sunday June 02, 2024 @03:33PM (#40556667)
Meteor, Ember, Derby were the "next big thing" 10 years ago.

Principles of Rich Web Applications (rauchg.com) Nov 4, 2014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8559519

https://www.infoworld.com/article/2612250/application-develo...

https://shiggyenterprises.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/picking-a...

https://blog.emberjs.com/inside-fastboot-the-road-to-server-...

It's not just that the idea has been developed over and over, but it is constantly hyped as a return to the golden past, and yet never gets the love that new client side spa messes end up attracting.

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by inopinatus on Sunday June 02, 2024 @07:02PM (#40557810)
Pjax, 2011. We can probably keep going back further. No-one has a monopoly on this idea.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by recursivedoubts on Monday June 03, 2024 @12:16AM (#40559281)
htmx was a mashup of $.load(), pjax and angular 1 style attributes (very different conceptual model but I saw how angular used custom attributes and thought that looked better than the JavaScript api I had cooked up)

later on I figured out that what I was doing was generalizing hypermedia controls, but that took me years to figure out.

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by rawoke083600 on Sunday June 02, 2024 @10:03PM (#40558738)
why does this matter ?
[dead]
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:44PM (#40555916)
First off, name calling.

Second, I actually thought the same as you but digging into the history I don't see any records of a public release of Hotwire until December of 2020, and HTMX was public in May of that year. Both commit logs and first HN submissions are in agreement on those dates, but if you have other evidence I'm open to it.

I'm pretty sure what I was thinking of was actually Turbolinks:

https://github.com/turbolinks/turbolinks

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by joshmanders on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:52PM (#40555984)
Htmx is the successor of Intercooler.js, which is like 10 years old already. https://github.com/bigskysoftware/intercooler-js
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:59PM (#40556034)
As noted by @madeofpalk [0], Hotwire is the successor of Turbolinks, which dates back to at least 2012 [1].

That said, I'm not particularly interested in litigating who inspired who. Both libraries are neat and have developed in parallel for ten years. That's cool!

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40555941

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4577169

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by stavros on Sunday June 02, 2024 @02:15PM (#40556151)
For what it's worth, I mentioned HTMX to a Ruby developer friend, and his reaction was "oh, like Turbolinks", so I think the mindshare was probably there first. That having been said, HTMX is my preferred way of making dynamic frontends now. I've never been a React developer, but I've always found SPAs way, way overused.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Sunday June 02, 2024 @02:22PM (#40556192)
Yeah, Turbolinks was huge throughout the Rails era—I remember it even being part of the random beginner tutorials that I did back in the day. I only ever heard of intercooler.js after htmx was announced.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by madeofpalk on Sunday June 02, 2024 @01:48PM (#40555941)
And then yes, Hotwire is just the next iteration of turbolinks.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Sunday June 02, 2024 @02:10PM (#40556115)
Ah, yep, that accounts for my sense that I was using this back in 2012! Thanks!
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by Affric on Sunday June 02, 2024 @08:19PM (#40558199)
His mastery of millennial style memes is so rich. You can tell he just believes he is right and everyone else is dumb but he’s just “in it for the lols”.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by recursivedoubts on Monday June 03, 2024 @12:18AM (#40559291)
I definitely don’t think everyone else is dumb, or that htmx is right for everything, or particularly novel.

I do enjoy the lols I will admit that, hopefully as much at my own expense as anyone

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by Affric on Monday June 03, 2024 @06:39AM (#40561290)
A bit presumptuous of me. Maybe it's just me that thinks you're smarter than everyone else.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by worthless-trash on Sunday June 02, 2024 @11:06PM (#40558990)
I don't know _htmx personally, but I think he's more than willing to poke fun at those heavily invested in technology that is overkill for their needs. He most definitely is poking fun and laughing at the current mindset of javascript culture.
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by whiskeymikey on Sunday June 02, 2024 @11:25PM (#40559058)
What’s TFA?
[dead]
Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by edanm on Monday June 03, 2024 @04:48AM (#40560572)
This is how I've always understood it.

Not pejorative btw - just a phrase to refer to the current article.

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by lolinder on Monday June 03, 2024 @12:30AM (#40559357)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19781756

A good thread for understanding the different ways people think of it. I always go with @speg's interpretation, because the pejorative meaning just isn't used that frequently on HN:

> I tend to rethink of it as "the featured article".

Re:Hotwire: HTML Over The Wire by arp242 on Monday June 03, 2024 @09:07AM (#40562282)
Turbo is more or less a continuation of Turbolinks, which has been around for ages. The Turbo repo goes back to 2015 (htmx starts in 2020), but Turbolinks is many years older. Of course there have been other "htmx-like" frameworks before; who even knows who or what was first at this point?

I don't think "feels like 37 Signals took the same idea and is trying really hard to sell it" is very fair (I've never seen them try to "sell it" at all, much less "very hard"). Regardless, you're allowed to "steal" ideas.