Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by hagbard_c on Sunday May 19, 2024 @07:19PM
(#40410490)
No, it has not been influenced by 'centuries of Western violence and oppression´, if anything is has been influenced - read encouraged by the absence of Western violence and oppression. I suggest you read up on the history of islam and the way this culture - it is far more than 'just' a religion - has been spread from the Arabian peninsula over a large part of the world in a relatively short time. To put it in simple terms this was done by way of conquest, in your terms that would be 'violence and oppression'. Islam reached Europe - i.e. 'the West' - in the beginning of the 700's (711 to be exact) and was only pushed out of the last remaining stronghold at the ed of the 1400's (1492). There have been several attempts since then to conquer more parts of Europe - i.e. 'the West' - with the sieges of Vienna being the most known. The last large-scale siege ended in 1683 when the Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire was defeated.
Islamic doctrine calls for the conquest of non-islamic territory - called 'dar el-harb' or 'land of war' - for it to be included in the 'dar al-islam' or 'land of islam'. For a country to be included in this latter category it needs to be ruled by an islamic government and needs to have common borders with some other islamic country. Only when the whole world has been included in 'dar al-islam' will the world progress towards the end of times. That may sound bad to some but to those who take their religion seriously this is a promise waiting to be fulfilled since they expect to find their way to paradise.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by starik36 on Sunday May 19, 2024 @11:39AM
(#40407625)
Probably the same place. Islamic theocratic was on the rise in that area in the 70s - it's likely Ayatollah Khomeini would come to power one way or another - possibly even via elections. Just like Islamists did elsewhere after the Arab spring.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by howmayiannoyyou on Sunday May 19, 2024 @11:26AM
(#40407537)
Mosaddegh was a marxist, supported by Russia, who tried to play both sides to advance a personal agenda of Persian ascendancy. Had he not been overthrown, the Russians would have eventually lost patience and killed him; or the radical islamists would have eventually overthrown him with the assistance of regional Arab players not keen on an ascendant Iran, with Marxist leanings. They would've wrongly believed an Islamist Iran would be easier to align than a secular/marxist regime.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by genman on Sunday May 19, 2024 @12:30PM
(#40408011)
Isn't the point obvious?
Just a little nitpick - US didn't finance Taliban. Taliban was formed after Russia stopped occupation in Afghanistan. Taliban was formed because US stopped paying attention.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by whatwhaaaaat on Sunday May 19, 2024 @12:58PM
(#40408200)
No the point is not obvious. We spent 25 years getting pictures of extremely isolated instances of afghans wearing western clothes as some justification for continued occupation. Exactly the same playbook tried with Iran.
Is the point to foster renewed interest in occupation by sharing misleading photos of isolated locations?
Operation cyclone led directly to the creation of the taliban.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by genman on Sunday May 19, 2024 @01:46PM
(#40408469)
These photos (how many of photos there are at all from that period in Afghanistan?) show that Afghan women were able to wear highly revealing clothing in public, like were Iranian women at the time. Something that this day is extremely unlikely in Afghanistan and Iran.
Different histories, same outcome - the point being - we really do not know what would have happened in Iran.
If you didn't know then Iranian revolution did not start as Islamic revolution. It started as popular revolution against shah but the other revolutionaries were eliminated by the Islamists.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by whatwhaaaaat on Wednesday May 29, 2024 @03:36PM
(#40516000)
Would you mind answering my question if you know?
The point is both countries have been infiltrated by western powers who support either tyrannical religious zealots or liberal causes whenever it suits their political interests which results in societies that tear themselves apart. And the societies tearing themselves apart is the feature not the bug.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by stanfordkid on Tuesday May 21, 2024 @11:49AM
(#40430013)
That’s a bit of a moot point. The actual human beings forming the military backbone of the “Taliban” were all fighters trained by the Pakistani ISI (at the behest of and sponsored by the United States) in order to fight Soviets. The US distributed a lot of brainwashing material to Taliban madarsas etc.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Monday May 20, 2024 @01:27AM
(#40412535)
There is an interesting episode about this in a 1985 British documentary called "End of Empire". If I am not mistaken, all episodes are on YouTube except one. It seems an agent gave an interview for the episode on Iran and accidentally (?) mentioned his employer's involvement in the 1953 coup. This was deleted from the final script.
More recently, an Iranian film maker made an another interesting documentary chasing up the details surrounding this edited script and what may have been deleted. It starred Ralph Fiennes as the agent being interviewed:
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by globalnode on Sunday May 19, 2024 @11:59AM
(#40407754)
i would never get into a helicopter, they dont have wings! how you gonna even attempt a crash landing if things go wrong? and you cant parachute out of one with giant blades spinning above your head... part of me thinks its an IQ test.
Autorotation allows for a landing in the case of power loss, this is an old technique. It can still lead to a hard landing, but it's not totally uncontrolled.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by r721 on Sunday May 19, 2024 @11:12AM
(#40407463)
AP story says:
>A helicopter carrying Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi suffered a “hard landing” on Sunday, Iranian state media reported, without elaborating. Some began urging the public to pray for Raisi and the others on board as rescue crews sped through a misty, rural forest where his helicopter was believed to be.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by Finnucane on Sunday May 19, 2024 @11:14AM
(#40407470)
No details at all, presumably not much will be known until it is found. Presumably if Iran had even a tiny reason to blame it on an enemy, they would already be doing that.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by petemir on Sunday May 19, 2024 @11:22AM
(#40407518)
Or an accident that they try to pass as an assassination attempt, or an internal attack they try to pass as a foreign attack. Who knows. We certainly do not.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by jimbob45 on Sunday May 19, 2024 @11:24AM
(#40407525)
How would this benefit Israel? Wouldn’t Khamanei just appoint someone equally or potentially even more extremist? Killing a general is one thing because there is experience and wisdom lost but politicians are largely replaceable.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by jimbob45 on Sunday May 19, 2024 @01:15PM
(#40408296)
But it would have made vastly more sense to do that when Israel had casus belli after Iran’s massive drone strike last month. Also, fighting a two-front war is very difficult even under ideal conditions (see: Hitler).
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by invalidname on Sunday May 19, 2024 @12:38PM
(#40408060)
Except for the fact that he called for its destruction repeatedly. Provided missiles, drones, weapons and trainings to its enemies... It's speculated the Oct 7th attack was based on a direct order from Tehran due to their fear of normalization between Israel and the Saudis.
I don't think Israel did this mostly because it's subtle and the current Israeli government doesn't tend to do subtle. But I won't be surprised.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by invalidname on Sunday May 19, 2024 @09:29PM
(#40411176)
Which of my multiple assertions were not him? Is he not responsible for the executions of thousands of dissidents? Did he not wish frequently for the destruction of Israel? Is he not behind the subjugation of women?
You're framing this as Israel, Iran etc. The problem is in specific governments not inherently in the countries. Israel and Iran used to have a great relationship before the Islamic revolution. Many Iranian expats live in Israel. People like Raisi are a huge part of the problem. He's one of the boogiemen who Netanyahu (and people like him) use to rise to power.
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by DoctorOetker on Sunday May 19, 2024 @12:14PM
(#40407889)
The other being the Ayatollah, given his history of constantly shuffling around people in power from different branches, and not tolerating family members in politics, in order to prevent stable institutions (or family) overthrowing him...
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by danielovichdk on Sunday May 19, 2024 @11:26AM
(#40407539)
The odds are against this being an accident. On the other hand a few other presidents and ex-presidents would help us all if they disappeared in accidents
Also, weather in the region apparently isn’t good for safely flying helicopters (FTA: “He said the visibility in the mountainous and wooded area was down to only about five meters.”)
That, to me, doesn’t support a claim “The odds are against this being an accident”. Do you have data that does?
Re:Helicopter in Iranian president's convoy crashes – state ...
by ChuffedToBits on Sunday May 19, 2024 @12:38PM
(#40408065)
All else being the same, Iranian aircraft will actually be likelier to be involved in accidents than aircraft in similar countries, due to the unavailability of spare parts caused by western sanctions.
Islamic doctrine calls for the conquest of non-islamic territory - called 'dar el-harb' or 'land of war' - for it to be included in the 'dar al-islam' or 'land of islam'. For a country to be included in this latter category it needs to be ruled by an islamic government and needs to have common borders with some other islamic country. Only when the whole world has been included in 'dar al-islam' will the world progress towards the end of times. That may sound bad to some but to those who take their religion seriously this is a promise waiting to be fulfilled since they expect to find their way to paradise.
https://nypost.com/2021/09/11/incredible-scenes-of-womens-li...
Who do you think financed the taliban to fight russia?
Just a little nitpick - US didn't finance Taliban. Taliban was formed after Russia stopped occupation in Afghanistan. Taliban was formed because US stopped paying attention.
Is the point to foster renewed interest in occupation by sharing misleading photos of isolated locations?
Operation cyclone led directly to the creation of the taliban.
Different histories, same outcome - the point being - we really do not know what would have happened in Iran.
If you didn't know then Iranian revolution did not start as Islamic revolution. It started as popular revolution against shah but the other revolutionaries were eliminated by the Islamists.
If only our national security state was still competent am I right?!
The point is both countries have been infiltrated by western powers who support either tyrannical religious zealots or liberal causes whenever it suits their political interests which results in societies that tear themselves apart. And the societies tearing themselves apart is the feature not the bug.
How do you measure country's net worth?
More recently, an Iranian film maker made an another interesting documentary chasing up the details surrounding this edited script and what may have been deleted. It starred Ralph Fiennes as the agent being interviewed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_53
Does that seems like the BBC is well into new-speak territory these days?
https://x.com/Faytuks/status/1792192211834286292
https://t.me/irna_1313/283983
Autorotation allows for a landing in the case of power loss, this is an old technique. It can still lead to a hard landing, but it's not totally uncontrolled.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autorotation
>A helicopter carrying Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi suffered a “hard landing” on Sunday, Iranian state media reported, without elaborating. Some began urging the public to pray for Raisi and the others on board as rescue crews sped through a misty, rural forest where his helicopter was believed to be.
https://apnews.com/article/iran-helicopter-raisi-b483ba75e43...
Apparently Abdollahian was also on the helicopter as well.
2 for 1.
Raisi and Abdollahian got served by Karma.
I don't think Israel did this mostly because it's subtle and the current Israeli government doesn't tend to do subtle. But I won't be surprised.
You're framing this as Israel, Iran etc. The problem is in specific governments not inherently in the countries. Israel and Iran used to have a great relationship before the Islamic revolution. Many Iranian expats live in Israel. People like Raisi are a huge part of the problem. He's one of the boogiemen who Netanyahu (and people like him) use to rise to power.
Sure. He's pretty much a product of his environment/government. Did I imply otherwise?
What makes you think so? Looking for data, I found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_state_and_gov.... It lists 3 helicopter accidents (one of them this year) and one helicopter bombing.
Also, weather in the region apparently isn’t good for safely flying helicopters (FTA: “He said the visibility in the mountainous and wooded area was down to only about five meters.”)
That, to me, doesn’t support a claim “The odds are against this being an accident”. Do you have data that does?
The Indian head of military forces, the Leicester city billionare.... those are just a couple off the top of my head.