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Re:Small Things by ashnehete on Sunday May 05, 2024 @12:04PM (#40265857)
Tangential, but the line saying: "smiles are always free" reminds me of the often overlooked cost of emotional labour performed especially by the service industry. We should also acknowledge this small thing.
Re:Small Things by jareklupinski on Sunday May 05, 2024 @12:07PM (#40265877)
> "smiles are always free"

you're not wrong; nothing is free: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_mask_syndrome

> ...subjects develop depression and physical illness as a result of prolonged, unnatural smiling.

Re:Small Things by pizzafeelsright on Sunday May 05, 2024 @12:45PM (#40266190)
I am so far removed from this now that it feels foreign to me.

In my house we must have a good attitude or be silent. It's fine to be angry or sad, just no crying or whining. Every request for a hug must be met with a hug.

I expect the emotional exercise to help workout the management of emotions and adjusting of attitude.

Re:Small Things by mynegation on Sunday May 05, 2024 @12:57PM (#40266292)
> In my house we must have a good attitude or be silent.

Having grown up in a house like that and re-learning to express my feelings and being able to empathize with people close to me later in life - I ask you to take a harder look at that stance.

Re:Small Things by pizzafeelsright on Sunday May 05, 2024 @01:26PM (#40266545)
You've expressed your emotions. I expressed mine.

I appreciate your encouragement.

I wasn't taught that attitude was a choice. It was hard learned over many failures. My stress evaporated. My anxieties faded.

Re:Small Things by saulpw on Sunday May 05, 2024 @11:40PM (#40270932)
Maybe "attitude is a choice" when learned as an adult is a relief, but when learned as a child is oppressive.
Re:Small Things by lukevp on Sunday May 05, 2024 @12:48PM (#40266218)
Your house sounds a little toxic. I couldn’t tell in your post if you were positive or negative toward this, but it sounds like a denial of human emotion. Why would anyone ban crying? Sounds like the “turn it off” approach from the Book of Mormon.
Re:Small Things by pizzafeelsright on Sunday May 05, 2024 @01:22PM (#40266504)
Emotions are real and to be well managed. There's a time to cry. Working with adults who cry when their work or effort is brought under examination will lead to a toxic work environment.

I'm not Mormon. Not familiar with the culture.

Re:Small Things by kelseyfrog on Sunday May 05, 2024 @10:47PM (#40270693)
I'm curious about this system as it exists in your house. Who gets to decide when the time to cry is?
Re:Small Things by pizzafeelsright on Tuesday May 07, 2024 @12:44AM (#40282431)
Me, mostly. Crying is fine in your room or the shower.

Jesus cried twice in three years. There is a time and a place.

Re:Small Things by kelseyfrog on Tuesday May 07, 2024 @03:16PM (#40290275)
Still curious, who is the rule for?
Re:Small Things by pizzafeelsright on Tuesday May 07, 2024 @03:17PM (#40290291)
The household. Me, wife, kids.
Re:Small Things by kelseyfrog on Tuesday May 07, 2024 @03:39PM (#40290566)
Does it extend to other forms of emotional expression?
Re:Small Things by pizzafeelsright on Wednesday May 08, 2024 @12:10PM (#40299712)
I suppose. Good question.

Gloating isn't permitted.

Most of the discussion and instruction are related to being able to integrate well with others.

I'm weird. Everyone is a little odd. Quirks aren't wrong but can be unattractive or situational inappropriate. Guidance is given.

Re:Small Things by lelanthran on Sunday May 05, 2024 @01:18PM (#40266473)
> Sounds like the “turn it off” approach from the Book of Mormon.

I'm not familiar with that. What is it?

Re:Small Things by squigz on Sunday May 05, 2024 @01:44PM (#40266673)
> just no crying or whining. Every request for a hug must be met with a hug.

Your kids can't cry, or complain? And they have to give someone a hug even if they don't want to?

This all seems very unhealthy long-term.

Re:Small Things by pizzafeelsright on Tuesday May 07, 2024 @12:47AM (#40282447)
They can cry if they have a good reason. Complaining? No. That's not tolerated. Life can be much harder so if they complain their life gets much more difficult and suddenly complaints stop.

No matter what, if they request a hug they get one. Mid punishment? During correction? They want a hug? Absolutely. Love and affection will never be denied.

Re:Small Things by wrs on Sunday May 05, 2024 @01:00PM (#40266324)
Not sure if you mean that literally…“no crying” sounds like a very bad idea even for an adult. I trust you mean more like “no hysterical tantrums”.
Re:Small Things by pizzafeelsright on Sunday May 05, 2024 @01:30PM (#40266568)
Crying for pain is fine.

Crying for emotional manipulation is not permitted.

The kids can turn off the tears when they want if the manipulation is shown as ineffective

Re:Small Things by 2four2 on Sunday May 05, 2024 @02:11PM (#40266902)
When you put it this way, it seems more reasonable. Obviously you shouldn't reward or validate tantrums. At the same time, however, empathy is an easy way to acknowledge misplaced emotional reactions without encouraging them.

Meeting a tantrum with "I know you don't like the taste of vegetables, but they're an important part of growing up and you must eat them before having sweets." is different from "In this house, you cannot cry if there's no real pain."

There's no fine line between valid responses and manipulation. For manipulators, the pain FEELS real. The pain is a part of a learned behavior. Guiding those feelings instead of making a hard rule cutoff will have better results and build better trust.

Re:Small Things by sanderjd on Monday May 06, 2024 @07:54AM (#40273541)
This is the fine line all parents walk.

On the one hand, I agree that it is important for children to learn that manipulation is not the best way to get the things that they want. On the other hand, I think it is also important for them to learn that they can trust their parents to be there for them when they truly feel they have a problem, even if it isn't physical pain, and even if it is really quite silly. But you don't want them to learn that they can't trust you, because someday they might have problems that aren't silly.

Today it might be "the socks you picked out for me aren't the right color and the boys at school will make fun of them". But tomorrow it might be a developing drinking or drug problem or early signs that a romantic interest is becoming abusive. If they learn they can't bug you about the socks, they might also learn that they can't bug you about those things either.

Re:Small Things by pizzafeelsright on Tuesday May 07, 2024 @12:54AM (#40282469)
They're toddlers so discussion about drugs, peer pressure, and other abuse is discussed.

Those are well managed. I practiced tonight with name calling.

After preparing him I insulted my oldest.

I said "you have donkey breath"

I asked if what I said was true. "No." Okay. Now you have power and I have none. Lies cannot hurt you. Insults are lies. No one can harm you with words if you know who you are.

Re:Small Things by skipnup on Sunday May 05, 2024 @01:35PM (#40266605)
And if you live with a toddler, even those have to exist and are necessary for becoming a healthy being. At least if they are met with understanding by the parents.
Re:Small Things by richie_adler on Monday May 06, 2024 @12:52AM (#40271228)
Forbidding the expression of whole categories of feeling and encouraging falsehood in the expression of affection is revolting.
Re:Small Things by rvba on Monday May 06, 2024 @05:39AM (#40272841)
Poor kids
Re:Small Things by sanderjd on Monday May 06, 2024 @07:41AM (#40273467)
This sounds like a very bad idea to me. If a request for a hug must be granted, how does one express the real emotional cluster of "I want to hug you"?

Do you think the people you most admire in your own life and in the broader world, both current and historical, have emotional artificiality deeply engrained in them? For me, that is very much not the case.

Re:Small Things by Cerium on Sunday May 05, 2024 @01:16PM (#40266459)
I agree with the introduction, but that line was the last I read in the article.
Re:Small Things by qup on Sunday May 05, 2024 @02:50PM (#40267211)
Do you always stop reading when you disagree?
Re:Small Things by Cerium on Sunday May 05, 2024 @11:54PM (#40271010)
No - and I would not characterize my lack of interest in this article as disagreement. Labeling the cost of a smile as "free" demonstrates a lack of empathy or breadth of experience that I find distasteful and would prefer not to be part of a readership to.
Re:Small Things by sanderjd on Monday May 06, 2024 @07:57AM (#40273567)
I think the point people have made about this is a good one, but that your take here seems very overblown.
Re:Small Things by cyberax on Sunday May 05, 2024 @02:56PM (#40267258)
The other problem: if you always smile, then you never smile.

A smile transforms from a sign of affection into just another mandatory part of a uniform.