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Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by silverquiet on Monday April 15, 2024 @07:36AM (#40039171)
To a first approximation, if you express a strong opinion about politics (particularly in these times), no matter which side you align with, you're going to alienate about half your customers, so it's always seemed like bad business sense to do so. That said, electric cars themselves are not strictly politically neutral these days; they've (rather sadly if you ask me) become associated with political identity, and Musk has aligned himself in the stupidest way with the political tribe that sees them as antithetical to its values. I believe this was more tenable when Teslas were seen as more luxury cars than green cars, but the proliferation of cheaper Model 3s seems to have brought them down to Earth.

Also, although I would never own one, I truly enjoy seeing Cybertrucks out in the world; they're so novel and iconoclastic and have character that so lacks in modern mass-manufactured vehicles, but it looks like they might also be a sucking wound on the company.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by cbeach on Monday April 15, 2024 @07:38AM (#40039180)
God forbid a CEO would express his sincerely-held beliefs.

All my favourite CEOs inauthentically mirror the perceived beliefs of their customers in order to sell more products.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by fnordian_slip on Monday April 15, 2024 @07:55AM (#40039313)
I think part of it is that many of those beliefs are so stupid, they taint whoever holds them. Not all beliefs are created equal, so to speak.

Also, other CEOs who might share those beliefs are at least intelligent / savvy enough not to voice them openly. Being so stupid or arrogant that you would proudly display those beliefs is seen almost as worse by many, so he doesn't do himself any favours with that.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by maxerickson on Monday April 15, 2024 @08:15AM (#40039535)
Why do you have favorite CEOs? That seems like a weird hobby.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by someguydave on Monday April 15, 2024 @09:20AM (#40040190)
I think the implication is that many are on this forum have a “least-favourite CEO hobby” and are very proud of it.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by r00fus on Monday April 15, 2024 @10:46AM (#40041251)
There are hundreds of competing CEOs for that title in my book. Musk isn't even at that top of that list.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by leereeves on Monday April 15, 2024 @05:09PM (#40045614)
A lot of people on HN are obsessed with Musk though. There's a post about him every day here.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by TheCleric on Monday April 15, 2024 @07:02PM (#40046656)
Hey, my list is just all of them tied for last until proven otherwise.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by Solvency on Monday April 15, 2024 @09:25AM (#40040258)
because most people are bootlickers. sometimes it's a CEO's shoes, other times it's generic reeboks worn under the wizard robes of your local priest.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by EasyMark on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:10PM (#40043145)
leave reeboks out of this they ain't gone and hurt nobody
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by barryrandall on Monday April 15, 2024 @11:10AM (#40041599)
Having opinions is weird.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by jimbokun on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:37PM (#40043439)
Sounds like sarcasm to me.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by CamperBob2 on Monday April 15, 2024 @02:45PM (#40044201)
As opposed to having a favorite sportsball player? In neither case is the favor reciprocated.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by silverquiet on Monday April 15, 2024 @07:53AM (#40039296)
If Musk is sincere in his tweeting then he has the politics of a 14-year old Reddit Troll (and I would know having been guilty of such behavior myself). There are much better ways to persuade people of your righteousness than posting memes where women are flashing their vaginas at monks in order to tempt them, but of course that takes actual work and lacks the dopamine hit that comes from such subversiveness. And again, I say this as someone who appreciates the occasional 420/69 numerology or naming your car models "S", "3" (E), and "X". To me that's playful, but he's taken it far beyond that and into something much darker.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by pupppet on Monday April 15, 2024 @08:04AM (#40039410)
Except some beliefs are objectively stupid.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by andsoitis on Monday April 15, 2024 @10:33AM (#40041057)
> Except some beliefs are objectively stupid.

I agree. However, hoi polloi don't evaluate others based on the objective validity of their beliefs, but rather whether they share the same beliefs, however stupid.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by menacingly on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:34PM (#40043404)
you're never going to believe this, but the other side feels the same way
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by suzzer99 on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:47PM (#40043555)
While this is true, it doesn't preclude one side being completely unhinged from reality.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by archagon on Monday April 15, 2024 @03:05PM (#40044461)
In a scenario where there is a normal side and a stupid side, both sides will also feel that the other side is stupid. So this means absolutely nothing.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by marcosdumay on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:54PM (#40043646)
Well, there aren't 2 opposing sides, and that feeling doesn't change the fact that some beliefs are indeed stupid.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by ahahahahah on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:59PM (#40043702)
Well yeah, I think their beliefs are stupid. It would not surprise me at all that they hold other stupid beliefs.

Like, I believe flat earth beliefs are stupid. Do people that hold them believe my beliefs in that area are stupid? maybe, but I'm pretty comfortable with that.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by renegade-otter on Monday April 15, 2024 @08:20AM (#40039592)
Tesla customers are the "liberal coastal woke elites" Musk hates so much. What is he mirroring exactly that they would appreciate? It's the complete opposite of what you said.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by ulfw on Monday April 15, 2024 @09:01AM (#40040008)
I buy a company's products. Not a CEO's. CEOs just have to keep their mouths shut and all is well if their products are good. Hell, how many people do you think even know who the CEO of KIA is? Or of BMW? Or of Honda? Or of Stellantis?

Right.

Elon dug his own grave by having severe narcissistic personality disorder, always need to be front and centre of the daily discourse and happens to show his real right wing face now. A face that is anthesis to his customer base.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by cbeach on Monday April 15, 2024 @09:11AM (#40040110)
I'm his customer base. I have solar panels on my roof and a Tesla on my drive.

And I LOVE that Musk defends freedom of expression. I LOVE that he defends free market economics and border control.

I assure you I am MORE likely to buy a Tesla because of Musk.

We can do better than pigeonhole all EV customers into a single political tribe.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by klyrs on Monday April 15, 2024 @11:59AM (#40042295)
> And I LOVE that Musk defends freedom of expression.

As long as that expression is in line with his values and doesn't criticize him? That isn't "free" speech he's defending.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by EasyMark on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:15PM (#40043183)
Right, he has definitely removed and shadow-banned reporters who put up things that he didn't like, while Chinese and Russian blue check propaganda accounts spam Twitter with hundreds of tweets and retweets every day PER account.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by suzzer99 on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:49PM (#40043577)
Yeah when he removes accurate community notes on his own tweets, that's not exactly promoting freedom of expression.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by silverquiet on Monday April 15, 2024 @09:35AM (#40040381)
Wouldn't a free market for labor eschew any kind of border control? What do you think Musk cares most about - the nationality of the workers who assemble a Tesla, or the cost of their labor?
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by Solvency on Monday April 15, 2024 @09:27AM (#40040276)
it's wild watching you worship musk relentlessly on him comment after comment. you LOVE him. we get it.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by blitzar on Monday April 15, 2024 @11:03AM (#40041504)
Elon promised a horse and she is going to get it.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by dang on Tuesday April 16, 2024 @03:40PM (#40056291)
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

We ban accounts that post like this, so I need to ask you to stop.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by EasyMark on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:13PM (#40043166)
I think you can recognize that OP was talking about the 80% of his customers who buy EVs because they are green friendly or tech geeks, and not 20% who buy because they like Musk
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by jimbokun on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:40PM (#40043467)
Yes, but the problem for Elon is that the people like you in the intersection of all those sets is rather small.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by dang on Tuesday April 16, 2024 @03:40PM (#40056289)
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

We ban accounts that post like this, so I need to ask you to stop.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by cbeach on Saturday April 27, 2024 @06:53PM (#40184327)
It’s useful to know how the site moderators view my comments, and how this might influence their behaviour against my user account.

Thank you for admitting this.

I will be more wary of this site than I already was.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by infamouscow on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:41PM (#40043486)
Elon has disclosed having Aspergers and is on the Autistic spectrum.

When unqualified idiots blindly give medical diagnoses on the Internet, it tends to be a projection of their own shortcomings. In this case, it just makes the brain dead ableist commentary even more embarrassing and stupid. And yes, it's stupid. [1] Do not mistake this as an ad hominem attack, it's a deliberate response of derision suitable for such vacuous and blatantly erroneous commentary.

Instead of celebrating Elon's success and being a role model for others with disabilities, all I see are most pathetic people imaginable forming a shit circle to punch down on someone for their immutable traits.

1: https://youtu.be/ww47bR86wSc

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by klyrs on Monday April 15, 2024 @11:48AM (#40042141)
God forbid we judge a man on the content of his character.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by marcosdumay on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:52PM (#40043612)
Smart CEOs aren't on the news all the time nor use the hatespreading engines they buy on themselves.

But the not-smart ones are so entertaining that I can support them!

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by Gud on Monday April 15, 2024 @05:01PM (#40045537)
I mean, the man we are talking about have come to dominate two notoriously difficult industries by revolutionising both.

Wouldn’t Elon Musk be the definition of “smart CEO”? Considering his track record?

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by tarsinge on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:58PM (#40043689)
Sincerely-held beliefs? Have we seen the same twitter posts? For me these look like drug fueled ramblings.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by yumraj on Monday April 15, 2024 @02:27PM (#40044017)
> God forbid a CEO would express his sincerely-held beliefs.

Express to who?

Who do you express your sincerely-held beliefs to? To your friends and family or do you often get on a soapbox/roof-top/social media platform and just start yelling?

Musk’s been doing the latter, and CEO or not, it comes with consequences that are directly proportional to the size of the megaphone.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by EasyMark on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:09PM (#40043132)
He would have just been so much better off for his own mental health as a techno optimist rather than this spiral into psychosis and imagined harms inflicted on him. He really should have sprung for therapy rather than for xitter.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by leereeves on Monday April 15, 2024 @05:07PM (#40045598)
This whole discussion is assuming Musk is the problem and somehow caused these layoffs.

But all of the "big three" US automakers have laid off thousands of workers in the last few months. Tech companies have laid off hundreds of thousands.

Tesla is both, so isn't it likely that they're dealing with the same forces that caused layoffs at other companies?

This discussion seems like several people with pre-existing (and oft-repeated here) grievances twisting evidence to fit their theories instead of forming theories based on the facts.

---

(Another fact to consider: in addition to the widespread layoffs already mentioned, there's also growing competition from hybrid makers.

US automakers race to build more hybrids as EV sales slow

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-aut... )

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by panarky on Monday April 15, 2024 @07:39PM (#40046876)
>> I refuse to buy a Tesla

> assuming Musk is the problem

The answer, of course, is "all of the above".

Yes, Tesla is subject to the same forces as other car companies.

On top of that, some percentage of potential customers refuse to buy Teslas because Musk personally tainted the brand.

And that second factor could easily explain the difference between a 5% drop in shipments and their actual 13% drop YoY.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by advael on Tuesday April 16, 2024 @12:42AM (#40048433)
It seems like most of those layoffs are a rather cynical ploy to create a temporary stock boost and pay for a buyback, maybe with some labor market manipulation (specifically, scaring developers into accepting lower wages, not unionizing, and not demanding remote work) getting done along the way. Tesla, like many tech companies and auto manufacturers, but also like most American businesses, essentially drives its decision-making around some complicated financial game the plutocrats are playing with stocks, increasingly to the detriment of anything us mere mortals can comprehend like making and/or selling goods and/or services
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by angiosperm on Tuesday April 16, 2024 @01:06AM (#40048548)
Poor build quality, unreliability, and extremely high repair costs keep away another group.

If you have a Tesla, get the suspension checked at least twice a year, and after hitting any pothole. A broken suspension can kill you.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by lynx23 on Tuesday April 16, 2024 @03:36AM (#40049316)
Let me guess... You are a unqualified diagnostician doing armchar-diagnosis of people you dont even know personally?
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by pseudosavant on Monday April 15, 2024 @01:53PM (#40043638)
I must admit I enjoy seeing Cybertrucks in the wild. They are fugly, but not as fugly in-person as I expected. Putting the development resources into a cheaper Model 2 would almost certainly been a better investment for the company though. Cybertrucks will never sell in enough volume to affect Tesla's bottom line positively.
Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by borkyborkbork on Tuesday April 16, 2024 @01:17PM (#40054628)
The secret to their success is to build and test new tech in a low volume high cost vehicled then take that knowledge and build cheaper. Model S/X -> Model 3/Y.

With that info, you can easily forecast that the tech they are testing in the Cybertruk will be the foundation for the 25k car.

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by chipdart on Tuesday April 16, 2024 @01:57AM (#40048783)
> To a first approximation, if you express a strong opinion about politics (particularly in these times), no matter which side you align with, you're going to alienate about half your customers, so it's always seemed like bad business sense to do so.

There's a basic principle as old as time which goes something like "never discuss politics, religion, and sports with co-workers". The reasons are obvious.

What kind of absolute moron is going to assume the public face of a few fragile companies and insist on making broad gratuitous ignorant public statements on each and every single one of these topics, sometimes bundling a bunch of them together?

Re:Tesla to lay off more than 10% of its staff by gota on Tuesday April 16, 2024 @12:40PM (#40054168)
Surely its politics, religion and sex(uality)?

Sports is the go to watercooler topic after weather