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Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by risho on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @08:47PM (#39925224)
macos finder is still bad at everything. it organizes the icon view without grid support so things will be spaced weird and go off the screen. it doesn't tell you how fast files are transferring. shift click to select a series of files doesn't work in icon mode. enter doesn't open the folder. there is only a back button and not a go up directory button and these are just the things i could immediately remember with 10 seconds of thought.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by VHRanger on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @08:49PM (#39925237)
You forgot the lovely thing that is .DS_Store, which ends up everywhere your machine visits on the network.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by geerlingguy on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:08PM (#39925407)
Apple has a silly default enabled that causes that issue—the best thing is to disable it: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102064
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by talldayo on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:36PM (#39932695)
Silly defaults are why I got rid of my Macbook. I just can't tread the water.

Put on your headphones... Apple Music launches. Save files to a certain directory, and it's a tacit request to put it in iCloud. Mouse acceleration is default, disabling it is as easy as a terminal command though (or a third-party tweaking tool). Safari will send nag notifications, but only if you don't disable it. Leaving iCloud alone will add a bright red (1) balloon to your Settings app for no reason; probably for the best. Disable Crash Reporter, disable telemetry, disable the program terminator, disable the sleep image, disable OCSP and Gatekeeper... on top of all that, I still disable automatic updates since Apple cannot be trusted to maintain basic functionality between minor updates.

In all my time on MacOS, the only piece of compelling software I found was iTerm2. Which is a shame, since I don't use MacOS for terminal stuff besides SSH anyways.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by VHRanger on Thursday April 04, 2024 @05:46PM (#39936170)
Boy if iCloud defaults annoy you, wait until you see recent versions of Windows.

By default they put your entire desktop folder, documents folder, etc. as children folders of the OneDrive folder now.

It's absolutely infuriating

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by talldayo on Thursday April 04, 2024 @06:08PM (#39936403)
Yep - I dropped Windows 10 like the hot garbage it was. I suffered through Windows 8 expecting that things might turn around, and even on the insider builds it consistently felt like Windows was an ad delivery platform. I was disappointed to watch Apple fumble their opportunity to make OSX the true Windows-killer.

Now that I daily-drive Linux, I don't log-on to Windows or Mac systems without a deposit for the troubles. I truly feel bad looking out at the modern landscape of mainstream operating systems. It's no wonder most people feel trapped by modern technology.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by JoBrad on Friday April 05, 2024 @07:58AM (#39941290)
That’s a feature, though. My parents, our CEo, etc. never lose a file. And if they get a new device everything just shows up on the new device. It’s sort of magical, actually.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by reaperducer on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:25PM (#39925537)
You forgot the lovely thing that is .DS_Store, which ends up everywhere your machine visits on the network.

No worse than Windows spewing thumbs.db files all over the place. Or any of the thousands of different dot files that end up in Linux volumes.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by akdev1l on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @11:06PM (#39926150)
dotfiles live in your home directory almost exclusively.

Literally there’s no tooling I know of that will drop random hidden files.

The ext4 filesystem does have a special hidden directory for data partially recovered/corrupted

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by justinclift on Thursday April 04, 2024 @05:57PM (#39936288)
On that note, ZFS has a hidden ".zfs" directory for accessing filesystem snapshots.

That works with ZFS shared over the network (samba, etc) too, which can be useful. :)

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by crtasm on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @10:16PM (#39925839)
Does Windows still make that file? I built a new PC a few years ago and don't recall disabling it (Win10).
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by JoBrad on Friday April 05, 2024 @08:00AM (#39941304)
I think it’s only present if Explorer needs to store a preview for a folder or file.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by noisem4ker on Saturday April 06, 2024 @01:27PM (#39953926)
They're gone since Vista (2007), I think. Widows now stores thumbnails in the user profile folder. But the stigma lives on.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by risho on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:50PM (#39925686)
i must have missed the part of nautilus or dolphin where they put a dot file in every directory you navigate to.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by talldayo on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:17PM (#39932389)
I quite literally do not know a single filesystem that creates dotfiles outside of the volume root directory, besides APFS. It is both worse and unique relative to modern operating systems.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by mmaniac on Thursday April 04, 2024 @04:28AM (#39927828)
Resource forks are worse than that. Any non-Apple filesystem you work on gets littered with ._ files and archives get __MACOSX folders too. Mac OS leave a lot of detritus in its wake.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by rchaud on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:50PM (#39933711)
Apple's equivalent of the "sent from my Blackberry" email signatures of yore.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by jprival on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:49PM (#39925682)
> enter doesn't open the folder

That’s a little like complaining that Alt-F4 is unintuitive, isn’t it? It’s historical continuity. On the other hand, they changed Command-N…

> there is only a back button and not a go up directory button

Can’t argue with that one, though.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by risho on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:54PM (#39925711)
apple is weird, because on one hand they maintain vestiges in macos from back in the 80s and 90s when it comes to weird ux and file/window management things even though they are severely dated by todays standards. this is possibly suggesting that they don't want to rug pull people who have have grown accustomed to a certain workflow, but then at the same time they will make drastic changes like completely abandoning x11, for all intents and purposes opengl, completely change cpu architectures multiple times and remove hardware peripheral ports that people depend on without batting an eye.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by jprival on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @10:02PM (#39925749)
Also sometimes they do make really painful and arbitrary UI/UX changes - don’t get me started on the iOS podcast app. Personally I’m all for preserving keyboard shortcuts because that’s something I really internalize but it would be hard to argue that they are consistent taking any kind of broader view.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by ks2048 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:17PM (#39925480)
Icon-view mode is baffling. After maybe two decades, I still don't know what "clean-up by ..." means or why it just doesn't arrange things nicely by default.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by tpmoney on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @10:19PM (#39925852)
"Clean Up By" arranges files by the selected attribute, compared to "Sort By" which keeps files arranged by the selected attribute. If I were Apple I would have either gone with `Arrange/Sort By` and `Keep Arranged/Sorted By` or a single menu `Sort By` with a toggle-able option to keep it sorted by the selected item.

I suspect the latter at least might not be done because then the menu items for the attributes you sort by would remain selected or reset automatically depending on the state of the `Keep Sorted` toggle, which would be weirdly inconsistent. But then again the `Clean up By` menu enables and disabled depending on the state of the `Sort By` menu, which is arguably even more inconsistent and confusing.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by LeoPanthera on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:03PM (#39925359)
> there is only a back button and not a go up directory button

Command-click the folder name in the title bar.

Or, View > Show Path Bar.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by rovr138 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:06PM (#39925384)
or Command + Up Arrow
[dead]
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by simonklitj on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:11PM (#39925427)
Calm down man. That comment was a solution to a problem, not a defense in any sense. Yikes.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by threeseed on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:15PM (#39925461)
> secret hotkey

It's the third item in the Finder Go menu. Not exactly secret.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by frozenlettuce on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:08PM (#39925402)
File browsing has been a solved problem since Windows XP. I hate that Finder doesn't provide a button in its UI to go one level up (instead I have to use cmd+up). The fact that it hides the actual drives makes me think that this is all intentional to have users unlearn (or not learn, if young) how HDs work and bill for that juicy cloud storage.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by tpmoney on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @10:38PM (#39925978)
>The fact that it hides the actual drives makes me think that this is all intentional to have users unlearn (or not learn, if young) how HDs work and bill for that juicy cloud storage.

Isn't that just the standard nix filesystem view abstraction leaking into the rest of the OS? Your file system could be any number of drives (or no drives at all) mounted at arbitrary points. Showing them like they are any relevant place to start for most users seems silly. Especially given that in a modern nix OS, almost everything in the top level of `/` is useless to users.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by nickburns on Thursday April 04, 2024 @12:41PM (#39932774)
imagine the 'most users' of Apple products trying to decipher this comment—which was essentially frozenlettuce's point.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by soraminazuki on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @11:02PM (#39926113)
Windows XP explorer didn’t even have tabs.

Also, macOS shows external drives on the Desktop and the Finder sidebar by default. The basis for your conspiracy theory is just plain false.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by Teever on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:31PM (#39925571)
Try long clicking the window title/icon, it'll reveal the tree and you can traverse up it.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by Teever on Friday April 05, 2024 @01:17PM (#39944837)
Oops, actually meant rigiht click.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by Dalewyn on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:22PM (#39925505)
>The fact that it hides the actual drives makes me think that this is all intentional

It definitely is intentional, and for good reason[1].

[1]: https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/09/27/2032200/students-do...

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by xtiansimon on Thursday April 04, 2024 @03:09PM (#39934565)
“The fact that [??] hides the actual drives makes me think that this is all intentional to have users unlearn (or not learn, if young) how HDs work and bill for that juicy cloud storage.”

Are you talking about Mac or Windows?

Windows has those shortcuts which backtrack only to MyPC, and they’ve done that since forever. Always infuriated me as a Mac user since I am both user and Admin to get stuck in one of these loops, when I needed to get to root.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by pests on Friday April 05, 2024 @03:03AM (#39939462)
My PC -> C:/ is the easiest method I've found.

I always find it very fursting to get back to my user folder too without being stuck inside my documents or my downloads. End up adding a shortcut to the navigation panel for it.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by wpm on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @08:52PM (#39925255)
I prefer enter to not open folders and files. Command+O opens.

Should be configurable though.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by jwells89 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:35PM (#39925598)
Make that two of us. Enter is too easy to fumble-press while having tens or hundreds of files selected, so it’s better to have that hooked to something inconsequential and easily reversible. By comparison Command-O is much harder to press unintentionally.

Also if I recall correctly, enter to rename has been Mac convention since the beginning, making it not wrong but just different.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by spiderxxxx on Thursday April 04, 2024 @10:07AM (#39930587)
Ok, step back a bit... I have a file selected, I have a key called 'enter' - if I press 'enter' what would you expect to happen? I'd expect to 'enter' the file - by opening it or 'entering' the file. I wouldn't expect it to 'enter a new name', because that's an editing function.

Now, my mac has enter marked as 'return'. Let's follow the same logic, assume I have a file selected, what should 'return' on a file do? Return it to where?

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by jwells89 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @10:58AM (#39931258)
I see the logic, but in my opinion fumbles with this shortcut are catastrophic enough (sitting there waiting for N files to open in however many apps so they can all be closed) that the “logical” option shouldn’t necessarily be favored. That said, the alternative doesn’t necessarily have to be Command-O (though I like the mnemonics of that), some other modifier paired with return/enter could work too, but I really don’t think it should be a single key shortcut.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by callalex on Thursday April 04, 2024 @05:26PM (#39935980)
The button is labeled “Return” on Macs. You certainly don’t expect that button to navigate back..
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by Toutouxc on Friday April 05, 2024 @01:50AM (#39939066)
The key is Return. It's always been called Return on Macs (AFAIK). "Return to rename" is just a convention, and it doesn't make sense, but calling the key Enter and not making a distinction between Return and Enter is a Windowsism, just like expecting Ctrl + C to work, the semaphore to be on the right side of the window and — for the longest time — expecting the green dot to "maximize" the app (since changed from Zoom to Fullscreen).
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by derefr on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:17PM (#39925482)
Cmd+Down is more generic. It’s the “enter” (as in “go into”) to Cmd+Up’s “leave” / “go out of.”
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by TheLoafOfBread on Thursday April 04, 2024 @04:48AM (#39927975)
Enter = one key

Cmd+whatever = annoying chord.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by nullwarp on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:00PM (#39925328)
Really one of the worst pieces of software I've ever been forced to use.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by nightfly on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:03PM (#39925361)
Windows Explorer isn't great either. Still can't support names/paths that the windows filesystem can
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by nullwarp on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:05PM (#39925379)
Sorry but windows explorer is miles ahead of finder.

Granted that's not that hard with how bad finder really is.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by kalleboo on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @11:01PM (#39926101)
Naw, Windows Explorer is basically useless for productivity. No QuickLook, no spring-loaded folders, can't show directory sizes in list view, for some reason it sorts directories separately from files(?!?) so you can't just type to jump to files, search is still atrocious etc etc. It's just so barren.

No the Finder UI is far superior. The part where it falls down is just in sheer bugginess and performance. And Apple of the past couple years has shown it does not care about fixing bugginess or performance on any of their platforms.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by Solvency on Thursday April 04, 2024 @10:06AM (#39930572)
Yeah no. Finder is garbage on every conceivable level.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by nullwarp on Thursday April 04, 2024 @09:31PM (#39937814)
Seriously I don't get how anyone can literally defend that garbage.

Bunch of Stockholm syndrome going around.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by 1over137 on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:02PM (#39925347)
>there is only a back button and not a go up directory button

You can press Command-up; and also add such a button in the toolbar from View > Customize Toolbar.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by Solvency on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @08:54PM (#39925269)
it's fucking outrageous.

one of my favorites: go save a file in some deeply nested directory. use Column view in the save dialog to get you there.

now try to save another file. you're in Column view only there's one one column: the last saved folder.

ZERO WAY to get back out!

WHY WOULD YOU TRUNCATE ALL OF THE PARENTS FOLDERS FOR NO REASON!

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by threeseed on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:17PM (#39925477)
Not sure what app you are doing this in.

I just tried a few e.g. Safari, Word and can't recreate the behaviour.

Every time column view shows the full hierarchy.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by nedrylandJP on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @08:59PM (#39925313)
Can't you go up a folder using the dropdown at the top?
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by Solvency on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @09:05PM (#39925376)
Yes which is completely insane.

Here we made these columns. But arbitrarily we decided can't use them, so here's a flat, non-structured, hodgepodge miniature list of stuff in a drop-down.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by theshrike79 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @04:24AM (#39927807)
cmd-up goes up a directory tree

cmd-down goes down a directory tree if you have a directory selected or opens a file if one is selected

IMO more intuitive than "enter opens file, backspace goes back", but YMMV

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by TheLoafOfBread on Thursday April 04, 2024 @04:38AM (#39927892)
Are you using cmd-o to open link in Safari too?
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by theshrike79 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @08:31AM (#39929563)
I don't tend to use the keyboard when navigating web pages.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by TheLoafOfBread on Friday April 05, 2024 @02:06AM (#39939132)
Not even when you are typing address or searching?
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by 10729287 on Thursday April 04, 2024 @11:54AM (#39932018)
Don’t forget selecting multiple files, right clicking to check infos to know how much the total weight. Enjoy
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by duffyjp on Thursday April 04, 2024 @01:26PM (#39933398)
You mean you didn't want 400 info windows that have to be closed individually?
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by tpmoney on Thursday April 04, 2024 @03:22PM (#39934691)
I can see an argument for the default behavior (though I would want the combined info too). But in case you or any other reader doesn’t know, hold option when choosing from the right click (or press cmd-opt-i) to get the “inspector” instead which will give you information about the whole group of files.

And related if you do open a mess of individual info windows, holding option while closing a window will close all windows in an application (note that since the info windows are in the finder, this will close your finder window too)

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by 10729287 on Saturday April 06, 2024 @02:22AM (#39950443)
Thanks for the tips. I was aware of holding option to show inspector but not about this behaviour while closing apps holding it. Nice to know. As always, the best features of Macos are the hidden ones.

Still, to me, inspector should be the default.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by subjectsigma on Thursday April 04, 2024 @06:14PM (#39936459)
I have legitimately never had a complaint about Finder and I don’t really get the hate in this thread. I guess to each his own.
Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by sumedh on Friday April 05, 2024 @08:52AM (#39941771)
You never had to check the size of lets say 10 folders at once?

Try doing that in Finder and let us know if you like the approach or not.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by subjectsigma on Friday April 05, 2024 @12:57PM (#39944633)
Believe it or not, I’ve never had to check the size of ten separate folders at once. Like, ever.

I have to amend my previous comment; reading the thread I do understand the hate now, nearly all of the comments here where people are angry at Finder are just things I’ve never had to do. And I suppose if I had to do them I would just use a shell script.

A big one is “no button to go up in the folder hierarchy”, I always open folders in a list view at a high level directory like ~/Documents so I just… didn’t notice the lack of this button. Huh.

Does this mean Finder is “good”? Well clearly not since so many people are unhappy. But it’s working fine for me. Without any other info I would assume it’s working fine for a majority of macOS users.

Re:macOS Finder is still bad at network file copies by saagarjha on Friday April 12, 2024 @02:59AM (#40010064)
⌘⌥I?