Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by voakbasda on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @04:06PM
(#39832245)
We love Chef John, and we recently started growing a herd of American Milking Devon cows. This breed traces its lineage directly back to Devon, but they have become extremely rare (with less than a thousand animals in existence). I can’t wait to try to make this recipe with their milk.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by ducttapecrown on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @05:32PM
(#39833113)
This is truly a Hacker News moment. Genuine. Certified. Thank you for sharing, that's awesome! Are the Devon cows extremely rare, or the American Milking Devon cows?
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by voakbasda on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:40PM
(#39834105)
The Devon breed were among the very first cattle brought to the New World and were once immensely popular. The American Milking Devon breed branched off of the Red Devon lines in the mid-20th century, as the later started to move away from dual-purpose in favor of meat production.
Now, both are relatively rare in comparison to common commercial dairy and meat breeds, respectively. The margins are too thin in commodity markets to justify breeding anything but the most productive animals (e.g. Angus).
As I understand it, the original Devon breed in England remains quite popular.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by seabass-labrax on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:59PM
(#39834218)
Very interesting! It would make sense to sail across to the New World with the cattle breeds which were immediately available by the ports, which from the British Isles were of course mostly in Devon.
> As I understand it, the original Devon breed in England remains quite popular.
I would say that's right; you definitely see them around in Devon, where they outnumber the Holstein-Friesians which seen to otherwise dominate the European dairy cow population.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by voakbasda on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:57PM
(#39834612)
In addition to being regionally available, the Devon breeds are well-rounded triple-purpose animals; in addition to providing meat and milk, they are suitable for draft (e.g. pulling carts and plows), though you don't see them used much for that in modern times.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by daotoad on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @03:10PM
(#39831656)
Doesn't sound great, but it is delicious.
It's just cream that's been gently heated for an extended time to denature the proteins a bit. Not all that different in spirit from fresh cheeses (though cheesemakers denature the proteins by acidification or enzymatic methods).
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by thenewwazoo on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @04:56PM
(#39832749)
When I was a child in the 80s, my (Chinese) dad used to order "bean curd" in restaurants when we visited big city Chinese restaurants. I always found the name unappetizing in the extreme.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by xen0 on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @02:50PM
(#39831416)
As someone from Cornwall, the pictures in the article don't look right. Clotted cream is much thicker; those cakes look like they're made with whipped cream.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by kwhitefoot on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @03:27PM
(#39831833)
Definitely whipped cream, but then it is a London bakery.
Mind you not everyone in Devon takes cream seriously. I was at Darts Farm shop outside Exeter last summer and saw a stand advertising a Devon Cream Tea with a plast pot of Rodda's!
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by xen0 on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @03:13PM
(#39831685)
I think one might struggle to pipe clotted cream, or produce anything so 'elegant' with it.
It's thick, being mostly fat (often >60%). At least in Cornwall, it's often bought in plastic tubs like ice cream (it will hold its shape, not flow), not jars or bottles.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by eigenket on Wednesday March 27, 2024 @01:03AM
(#39835826)
From the article
> and the small number of dishes considered to be Devonian often involve dairy, like junket topped with clotted cream, Devonian cream tea, and the Devon (or Devonshire) split: a sweetened bun filled with whipped cream and topped with a dot of strawberry jam
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by h4ch1 on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @04:53PM
(#39832716)
you can make it yourself!
just boil some raw (even pasteurized works afaik), and keep it uncovered inside the refrigerator overnight. in the morning you'll have thick malai (cream) on the top which you can scoop up and enjoy with anything.
i personally have it cold topped with crystallized sugar as a monthly treat :)
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by geodel on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @10:06PM
(#39835004)
It worked back in India and my mom used to do all the time. Malai was my nemesis and I'd drink milk strained twice, just to make sure no tiny bits of malai left in milk. LOL. So naturally I never enjoyed this treat.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by ghoul2 on Wednesday March 27, 2024 @04:13AM
(#39836647)
Oh wow. I thought this was just my personal quirk. I absolutely cannot tolerate malai in my milk. I (involuntarily) spit the milk out if the mouthful happened to have even small bits of malai.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by simonh on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @09:07PM
(#39834674)
It’s arguably now a fair bit more modern than the US system which hasn’t been meaningfully reformed since the 18th Century. For example the US president is essentially just an elected George III.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by dragonwriter on Wednesday March 27, 2024 @12:26AM
(#39835714)
> It’s arguably now a fair bit more modern than the US system
No, its not, but the US system is also an arcane disaster, so even if it was that wouldn’t be a counterargument.
> which hasn’t been meaningfully reformed since the 18th Century.
Yes, it has been meaningfully reformed since the 18th Century. In many small ways in the 19th and 20th centuries, and with a couple whopping big ones, most notably early in the latter half of the 19th C.
> For example the US president is essentially just an elected George III.
Even if one decides not to quibble about the accuracy of that, the British still have an unelected monarch with vast estates, a real and practical veto over legislation which would effect them, and the ability to negotiate around the exercise of that power in complete unaccountable secrecy to influence legislation beyond that.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by Turing_Machine on Wednesday March 27, 2024 @10:51AM
(#39840000)
> It’s arguably now a fair bit more modern than the US system which hasn’t been meaningfully reformed since the 18th Century.
I am sorry, that is simply not true. Abolition of slavery? Votes for non-property owners? Votes for minorities? Votes for women? Votes for 18-year-olds? Incorporation of the Bill of Rights to the states? Prohibition (and its repeal)? Switching from (mostly) excise taxes to income taxes to fund the government?
Those are just some of the high points.
Probably the most significant (yet rarely appreciated) change is that the Vice President is no longer the person who received the second-highest number of electoral votes.
It was realized early on what a monumentally bad idea that was.
Trump with Hillary Clinton as VP? Biden with Trump as VP? Scary indeed. One can only speculate how many more assassinations and "accidents" there would have been over the years had that not been altered.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by sickofparadox on Wednesday March 27, 2024 @10:54AM
(#39840065)
There are other, less flashy changes that have affected the way the government works too, such as the capping of the apportionment in the House of Representatives (which also changes how presidential elections work). We haven't added any seats to it since 1929!
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by Reason077 on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:32PM
(#39834056)
Along with the telescope, steam engines, incandescent lights, modern firearms, electromagnets, pedal bicycles, electric clocks, chemical fertiliser, steam-powered ships, traffic lights, television, the jet engine, the programmable electronic computer, atomic clocks, carbon fibre, automatic teller machines, the lithium-ion battery, SMS text messaging, and animal cloning. I could go on!
Arguably, we could also claim the telephone and the world wide web, both invented by British engineers while abroad...
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by JoeAltmaier on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @04:27PM
(#39832461)
Unquestionably one of the great inventions of the modern age.
I take issue with the repeated use of 'churn' to describe ordinary milk cans. A churn has a dasher and paddle, to turn cream into butter. Nothing described nor pictured in the article is a churn.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by seabass-labrax on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @07:51PM
(#39834169)
> A churn has a dasher and paddle, to turn cream into butter. Nothing described nor pictured in the article is a churn.
Perhaps this is a local difference in terminology? Those things the men are unloading from the train are definitely milk churns to me. I'm no dairy production expert, but I am a Devonian :)
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by andrewgilmartin on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @08:37PM
(#39834508)
Clotted cream is my greatest loss moving from Dartmouth, Devon to the US. A vanilla ice cream cone with clotted cream and a Cadbury flake is unparalleled. And a Mother’s Bread sandwich with clotted cream and strawberry jam being next in line.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by deaddodo on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @10:06PM
(#39835002)
There's clotted cream (and double cream, treacle, golden syrup, mixed spice, etc) in every major American metro I've ever been in. Look for a British import shop. Or, if you're in New England, SoCal, etc, you might just find domestically produced stuff (Gelson's in LA has it, for instance).
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by hugs on Tuesday March 26, 2024 @10:36PM
(#39835154)
If you have the time, and an oven you trust to run a long time, you can make your own clotted cream. Just make sure to start with cream that is not ultra-pasteurized.
The "recipe" is pretty simple. It's not even really a recipe: 1) Pour cream in pan. 2) Cook at low-temp (175-ish degrees Fahrenheit) for 12-ish hours.
I made this a couple of times during the peak of my cooking experiments during the pandemic.
It really is amazingly delicious. Maybe we should all start calling it "Devonshire cream" instead of "clotted cream". There are people that will never try it only because of the name, which is unfortunate.
Re:Cream is thicker than blood: the rise and fall of the Dev...
by MaysonL on Wednesday March 27, 2024 @03:07AM
(#39836337)
Reading this, I remembered that early in my childhood, we actually had a milkman delivering milk to our home a couple times a week. (In New Jersey, USA, in the 1950s)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDyyAb6lB48
Update: kajmak [0] seems to be slightly different and mildly fermented.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaymak
Now, both are relatively rare in comparison to common commercial dairy and meat breeds, respectively. The margins are too thin in commodity markets to justify breeding anything but the most productive animals (e.g. Angus).
As I understand it, the original Devon breed in England remains quite popular.
> As I understand it, the original Devon breed in England remains quite popular.
I would say that's right; you definitely see them around in Devon, where they outnumber the Holstein-Friesians which seen to otherwise dominate the European dairy cow population.
It's just cream that's been gently heated for an extended time to denature the proteins a bit. Not all that different in spirit from fresh cheeses (though cheesemakers denature the proteins by acidification or enzymatic methods).
Today, of course, I love tofu.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_pudding
The name black pudding is still enough to scare people off
(best to experience this at a farm which makes their own, nothing beats home cooking)
Mind you not everyone in Devon takes cream seriously. I was at Darts Farm shop outside Exeter last summer and saw a stand advertising a Devon Cream Tea with a plast pot of Rodda's!
It's thick, being mostly fat (often >60%). At least in Cornwall, it's often bought in plastic tubs like ice cream (it will hold its shape, not flow), not jars or bottles.
> and the small number of dishes considered to be Devonian often involve dairy, like junket topped with clotted cream, Devonian cream tea, and the Devon (or Devonshire) split: a sweetened bun filled with whipped cream and topped with a dot of strawberry jam
Those pictures are of the splits
1. https://www.karouncheese.com/product/malai-breakfast-cream-s...
just boil some raw (even pasteurized works afaik), and keep it uncovered inside the refrigerator overnight. in the morning you'll have thick malai (cream) on the top which you can scoop up and enjoy with anything.
i personally have it cold topped with crystallized sugar as a monthly treat :)
No, its not, but the US system is also an arcane disaster, so even if it was that wouldn’t be a counterargument.
> which hasn’t been meaningfully reformed since the 18th Century.
Yes, it has been meaningfully reformed since the 18th Century. In many small ways in the 19th and 20th centuries, and with a couple whopping big ones, most notably early in the latter half of the 19th C.
> For example the US president is essentially just an elected George III.
Even if one decides not to quibble about the accuracy of that, the British still have an unelected monarch with vast estates, a real and practical veto over legislation which would effect them, and the ability to negotiate around the exercise of that power in complete unaccountable secrecy to influence legislation beyond that.
I am sorry, that is simply not true. Abolition of slavery? Votes for non-property owners? Votes for minorities? Votes for women? Votes for 18-year-olds? Incorporation of the Bill of Rights to the states? Prohibition (and its repeal)? Switching from (mostly) excise taxes to income taxes to fund the government?
Those are just some of the high points.
Probably the most significant (yet rarely appreciated) change is that the Vice President is no longer the person who received the second-highest number of electoral votes.
It was realized early on what a monumentally bad idea that was.
Trump with Hillary Clinton as VP? Biden with Trump as VP? Scary indeed. One can only speculate how many more assassinations and "accidents" there would have been over the years had that not been altered.
Arguably, we could also claim the telephone and the world wide web, both invented by British engineers while abroad...
(you’re correct, of course. I should have written reflecting telescope in the list above)
I take issue with the repeated use of 'churn' to describe ordinary milk cans. A churn has a dasher and paddle, to turn cream into butter. Nothing described nor pictured in the article is a churn.
Perhaps this is a local difference in terminology? Those things the men are unloading from the train are definitely milk churns to me. I'm no dairy production expert, but I am a Devonian :)
The "recipe" is pretty simple. It's not even really a recipe: 1) Pour cream in pan. 2) Cook at low-temp (175-ish degrees Fahrenheit) for 12-ish hours.
I made this a couple of times during the peak of my cooking experiments during the pandemic.
It really is amazingly delicious. Maybe we should all start calling it "Devonshire cream" instead of "clotted cream". There are people that will never try it only because of the name, which is unfortunate.
Here's the recipe I followed: https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/257734/chef-johns-clotted-...
Or maybe that was because I used too large a pan and it dried out too much? Or both?
It was better than what I've had in restaurants, for what it's worth.