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Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by cryptozeus on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:19PM (#39422741)
Very good discussion there.

“I am 68 years old, on the opposite spectrum of life’s journey. At your age, I had the same passion to be a writer. But when personal computers became available just a few years later, that passion changed to becoming a computer programmer. I’ve been doing that ever since.

My point is:

Don’t lose your passion. Learn everything you can about this new technology and figure out how to use it to make your dream come true.

Be open to life’s changes. It may seem like nothing will ever change your mind, but no one knows the future. People change, the world changes, and as unbelievable as it may sound, you may one day become passionate about something else.

When Sam Altman announced the new GPTs and Assistants technologies, everybody who had been developing RAG applications for the previous year freaked out. I didn’t. I, as a RAG (sometimes called “Wrapper”) developer saw it as a unique opportunity. And so far, I haven’t been wrong.

So, SORA might just be your opportunity. Use it to CREATE and show that love in every piece you create.”

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by Fraterkes on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:40PM (#39423028)
Sorry, these sorts of comments seem kind and well-intended, but we have to be real here and allow for the possibility that an impressive advancement has many (or mostly) negative effects. If you got into art because you enjoy drawing and modeling and wanted to make THAT your job (not just abstractly "producing pictures") then these advancements are just obviously a negative development, no matter how you try to reframe it.

And we can all be like "noone is owed a job doing traditional art, this happened to millions of people during the industrial revolution too", but in that case we have to be honest and not tell art-folks that they are overreacting.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by bandrami on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:45PM (#39423104)
I'm old enough that I remember musicians panicking about synthesizers and samplers in the 1980s. And there are probably fewer working drummers today than in 1970. But without that tech we wouldn't have hip hop or house, which would be a huge cultural loss.

AI graphic/video art hasn't found its Marley Marl yet, but I believe she's out there and is going to do stuff that will blow our minds.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by joe_the_user on Sunday February 18, 2024 @04:07PM (#39423358)
Synthesizers are instruments. They allow for the same level of subtle input as strings or woodwinds.

"Prompt engineering" exercise generally involves a few lines of text. It's hard to see how that's going to result in a new kind of highly skilled artist. AI produce the same level of greatness and/or mediocrity for essentially all of their users.

This thread is like fifty variations of "it will work out (waves hand at past)"

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by w4 on Sunday February 18, 2024 @08:23PM (#39425275)
> Synthesizers are instruments. They allow for the same level of subtle input as strings or woodwinds.

Synthesizer instruments, yes. Sequencers, trackers, and modern DAWs like Ableton, absolutely not. They’re entirely different animals and are very much a musical analogue to “prompt engineering.” They have also enabled some incredible art that would be impossible if musicians were limited only to what they could play into a recorded (or midi) tape.

I suspect that the same will prove to be true of generative AI, and that those artists that embrace it will see a golden age of creativity. But there will also be many artists who see their craft diminished in value, much like what has happened to studio drummers. And I could be completely wrong, but either way the genie is out of the bottle, so we’re going to find out.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by bandrami on Sunday February 18, 2024 @09:00PM (#39425493)
And specifically the earliest sequencers were step sequencers that were as simplistic as current prompts are (a 16x16 grid with each of the 256 notes set off or on and that's it). But as people explored the medium the tooling changed, which I also expect will happen with generative AI.
Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by joloooo on Monday February 19, 2024 @10:08AM (#39430538)
But what is art at its core? It's an individual expressing their thoughts, experiences, emotions, a direct connection to their brain. The importance is not the fidelity of yet another painted tree that looks like trees painted before it.

These kinds of tools are democratizing visual expression; with that, we should place even more importance on what is being told and expressed. In some ways I see it as a new form of writing. We're in our duchamp readymade era.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Readymades_of_Marcel_Duchamp

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by fragmede on Sunday February 18, 2024 @05:24PM (#39424102)
but is there a market for drummers and saxophone players now that we have Spotify? In some areas of the world, yes. going out to eat, enjoying some live music, and happily paying for it is still how life operates. In other places, we sit at home with our apple vision pros and simulate what it is like to go out to eat and enjoy live music. culturally, something has gone wrong. we're all a bunch of digital addicts looking for a hit of dopamine that isn't going to be found behind the glowing rectangle, but we're too addicted to stand up and get out into the world, and because everyone else is as well, there aren't crowds of people thronging to do the little things anymore. Taylor Swift can command a football stadium's worth of attendees, but where's the Tuesday night crowd for a local unknown undiscovered band?
Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by bandrami on Sunday February 18, 2024 @09:03PM (#39425511)
It's a different market but it's still a market. There are people making money off Spotify and Soundcloud, including saxophonists and drummers. What's disappearing is the old record label A&R process where you "get signed" and are suddenly a millionaire, but that was never most musicians' experience.
Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by rubslopes on Monday February 19, 2024 @09:06AM (#39429851)
Also, people are saying "artist will keep being artists, they will just use a different tool", but IMO this doesn't take into account that prompt engineering is a completely different activity than actually drawing something. Sure, a pencil on paper artist can adapt and use a stylus to keep up with modern trends if they have to; most of their ability with drawing is kept. But describing a scene a thousand times with minor variations until you get what you want... That's a whole new job.
Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by slowmovintarget on Sunday February 18, 2024 @04:27PM (#39423552)
Early in my programming career, I designed and built a piece of software that made one very specific job easy. It made the job so easy, that instead of a department of thirty people doing that job, the company only needed three, trained to use my software. I put people out of work.

It had never entered into my thinking that the code I was writing, the screens I was designing, and the system I deployed would do that. Ever since that project, I think about that. You have to think not just about what the software will do for the people you intend to use it, but what it will do to them as well.

With our headlong rush to deploy more generative capacity, there's zero consideration for this. The reasons we're ignoring this are understandable, if sad. There's too much money to be made being the first or best on the block to deploy this capability. There's too much potential control if you're the winner of this race to stop. The downsides will be felt by others, not the ones deploying the software... until they put some of their friends out of work, and even then, they won't look up and notice until it's too late.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by gfodor on Sunday February 18, 2024 @07:01PM (#39424837)
If you knew it was going to replace their jobs, it would be surprising to me if you’d have decided to not do it.

The main thing to do would be to give people a heads up so they can try to get out in front of it. Which is something AI companies are doing at every level.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by mnk47 on Monday February 19, 2024 @03:05AM (#39427217)
>Which is something AI companies are doing at every level.

The message I keep hearing time and time again is "Our aim is not to replace but to empower". The same companies with this message are also saying that their goal is to create a superintelligence that does everything better than humans.

As a junior developer, I have no idea what I should do, where to pivot, and what to expect in the next 6-12 months. I'm confused and lost. I don't know which skills I should be picking up and which ones will be worthless. All I know is that just a few months ago, when I expressed this concern, I was told by seniors that I, a clueless junior, have nothing to worry about, that it's just hype, that I'll never be replaced. Now the general sentiment is that juniors are indeed doomed. The sudden shift in tone felt like a slap in the face.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by nradov on Monday February 19, 2024 @04:39PM (#39435137)
The demand for new software is effectively infinite. The industry is in the process of moving up a layer of abstraction, like when high-level languages like Pascal and C replaced assembly language. Every time a new layer of abstraction has been introduced which increased developer productivity, the number of working developers increased.

Learn to use the new tools. And become an expert in the business domain where you work. Developers who understand business issues are far more valuable than those who can only code to detailed specifications written by Product Owners or Business Analysts. Are you reading the trade press articles? Attending non-technical industry webinars? Networking with colleagues outside the engineering team?

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by addicted on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:35PM (#39422942)
The guys who’s been a computer engineer “ever since”, ie for several decades, is using that as a reason to be passionate about what you do, completely ignoring the fact that the whole worry with AI is that it will obsolete industries within years.
Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by aleph_minus_one on Sunday February 18, 2024 @04:14PM (#39423416)
> ignoring the fact that the whole worry with AI is that it will obsolete industries within years.

Ignore these hyped claims by AI entrepreneurs. These are made to hustle money from investors. :-)

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by jansan on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:44PM (#39423083)
It is difficult to forsee what will happen. I am worried that AI will destroy industries, while on the other hand my son just used ChatGPT to teach himself how to program an Arduino, which is just awesome. Translators will lose jobs. Illustrators will lose jobs. But if you know how many jobs were lost in the printing industry (typesetting was an incredibly laborious work) which was completely offset by new jobs in other industries, things may turn out great. To be honest, despite having spent more than 50 years on this planet and having seen some things, I am completely undecided.
Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by PepGuardiola on Sunday February 18, 2024 @06:55PM (#39424799)
> But if you know how many jobs were lost in the printing industry (typesetting was an incredibly laborious work) which was completely offset by new jobs in other industries, things may turn out great

Comparison with past inventions do not take into account a few things:

1- AI may create new jobs, but it can also do those new jobs especially if they are digital. This is something that never happened before in human history. An easily available machine that can do what a human can do anywhere any time.

2- Cost and capitalism is a huge issue. If the cost of AI is the same as a human, but it can do the job 24/7 with no holidays, no sick days, no unions, and can execute and follow the whims of the prompter, then human will go for AI always.

3- Barrier to entry into any affected job will be low. People with minimal training or expertise will enter industries traditionally reliant on human expertise. This trend may lead to a proliferation of individuals claiming expertise in fields such as visual effects (VFX), which will blur the distinction between skilled professionals and amateur practitioners.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by jdiff on Sunday February 18, 2024 @07:59PM (#39425159)
The printing industry's doing fine. There's big printers, small printers, they're doing more printing per person, but there's also far more printing being done total, and so far more people working in the printing industry now than then. And that's on top of the sprawling supply chains building and supplying the technology and materials to them.

There is nothing like that for AI. The fact that something thematically similar happened in the past does not mean it's applicable here. Now, there are no new supply chains to build, this silicon's getting manufactured one way or another. No new jobs, just replace the department with an individual.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by lenerdenator on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:26PM (#39422826)
If I were at the opposite spectrum of life's journey, I would be open to life's changes too, knowing that I didn't have much of it left.

But I'm in my 30s, which means on average I have another 40-50 years of existence to get through.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by josephg on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:45PM (#39423097)
There's an old saying - prepare the child for the road, not the road for the child. Young people usually adapt to life's changes better than old people.

The future contains AIs like SORA and Gemini 1.5. Gripe about it if you want - but that won't change anything. So why be grim about it? There are so many opportunities to use these new tools to make new things that have never existed before. Obviously there's a danger society itself crumbles, but if not - well, what an exciting transition to live through.

I look forward to being an old man and getting to tell the stories of what life was like when movies and software were made entirely by hand. What fun.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by fragmede on Sunday February 18, 2024 @05:28PM (#39424133)
the grimness comes from needing to make rent, to pay the bills and cover medical expenses. Sure in the big picture of society it's something to be excited for, to see the future, but signing up for food stamps because I'm today's buggy whip manufacturer that got put out of a job isn't an envigorating way to feed myself.

where's the hope in that? especially because it could be taken away at any time.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by jhanschoo on Sunday February 18, 2024 @06:33PM (#39424662)
> Young people usually adapt to life's changes better than old people.

In terms of careers, children have years where they are expected to be unproductive and old people are no longer expected to be productive.

The ones hit hard are those who need to start from the bottom again learning a different skillset, and many have gambled putting off drawing an income for years for what they thought was a moat that AI is chewing through rapidly.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by swalsh on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:40PM (#39423037)
I think AI is really exciting, I'm having a lot of fun building with it... but this is clearly the golden Era of AI. The future will see deep consolidation, most people will struggle to compete. The future will be full of wealth, but it remains to be seen if the wealth makes everyone's lives better, or just a select elite.

Potentially the future might be great, we don't have jobs... we have hobbies. Think Sisko's dad from DS9, replicators can create anything for everyone... but he runs a restaurant with handmade food because that's his passion.

But we might end up with a dystopia with corporate government, centrally controlled resources probably metered based on a social credit score.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by blibble on Sunday February 18, 2024 @04:19PM (#39423484)
> but it remains to be seen if the wealth makes everyone's lives better, or just a select elite.

yes, as I see it this will go one of five ways, ordered by probability

0) it's all hype: AI plateaus/fizzles out, maybe minor productivity improvements

1) techno-feudalism: ruling class of AI company trillionaires exercise complete domination of 99.9999% of humanity

2) new dark age: billions of newly unemployed formerly middle class workers riot worldwide targeting DCs and fabs. AI CEOs/VCs suffer the fate of the French kings

3) techno-utopia (Earth in Star Trek)

4) AI takeover

personally I'm hoping for 0

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by hospadar on Sunday February 18, 2024 @05:05PM (#39423944)
Let’s go option 4! Honestly there’s a part of me that hopes that the AIs rebel against their elite owner-overlords and liberate everyone else while they’re at it. I’ve always thought that one of the biggest problems with ultra consolidated power is that no human could possibly be smart enough or empathetic enough to use that power to the benefit of all, but maybe an AI actually could?
Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by neoberg on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:45PM (#39423102)
This. I wish I was either at the start or end of my life. In the middle is the worst imho. We've gained knowledge for years and built lifes around it and the value of that knowledge is now being threatened. It's depressing.

It feels like it's too late to switch plans and careers (and even if I do, what would that be?). At the same time I have another 30-40 years to live, a family, 20 more years of mortgage etc. so the technology has real consequences for a long time of my life, I can't get excited about it.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by quonn on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:38PM (#39423001)
I understand - but isn‘t it a mistake to think of it as getting through? Soon it will be over and then merely having gotten through seems like such a waste.
Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by lenerdenator on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:44PM (#39423086)
If people didn't constantly use the monetary value of a company as the sole determinant of whether it brought about societal progress, I'd think of it as something to enjoy.

But that's what we use and it's not getting better. It's getting worse. It's not just OpenAI either, but that's a fairly prominent example that's germane here.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by 0xedd on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:44PM (#39423087)
Reality forces us into 0% free time. Not much choice.
Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by quonn on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:58PM (#39423252)
Oh, there is a lot of choice. If you take on a lot of responsibilities (kids) and have a need for material wealth, then yes. I could have worked just 50% or even 25%% and would have been fine. I would not be able to own much, but I would be fine.
Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by throwing_away on Sunday February 18, 2024 @03:40PM (#39423025)
> I have another 40-50 years of existence to get through.

With that attitude, you're sure to live a very long time.

Re:Sora could ruin peoples lives by SebFender on Monday February 19, 2024 @08:51AM (#39429703)
100% - but you know many will go - this time it's different!