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Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by bjornsing on Sunday February 11, 2024 @02:31AM (#39333228)
A related anecdote: Jönköping University is not allowed to call itself a university in Swedish (“universitet”), since that word is, by law, reserved for institutions that meet certain requirements. To get around this it uses the English name “Jönköping University” in Swedish as well. But formally it’s a so called “högskola”, more often translated as ”college”.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by lancebeet on Sunday February 11, 2024 @03:44AM (#39333512)
This is a really unfortunate but also quite common pattern in Sweden, where there's a veneer of internationality which tricks foreigners instead of helping them. Swedes will generally understand that Jönköping university isn't formally a university and wouldn't compare it to the more prestigious schools, but for international students it's not at all obvious. They might pay a lot of money and discover too late that the education and/or credentials they get in return don't match at all what they paid for. As usual, the Swedish authorities seem unwilling or impotent to take action on this type of issue.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by geon on Sunday February 11, 2024 @04:00AM (#39333596)
It doesn’t help that the terms don’t translate 1:1.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by marginalia_nu on Sunday February 11, 2024 @06:41AM (#39334350)
Sweden was a real pioneer with progressive social change and looking out for the little guy, but as with most of these things, the institutions set up to drive this change ossified, and are today more like a ceremonial roleplay of a process that concluded half a century ago.

These are the checks and balances that are in place, and unfortunately looking up from the faded old daguerreotypes of Ådalen 1931 and addressing issues from this century does not seem to be at all a priority.

You can get some action if you manage to dress the problem up as as a J.P. Morgan type industrialist opressing the workers (as happened with the Tesla blockade), but if it doesn't fit that narrative you're generally SOL.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by jeltz on Sunday February 11, 2024 @02:50AM (#39333292)
I wonder if that would really stand up in court. Here in Sweden our judges are not very impressed by clever technicalities.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by em500 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @02:55AM (#39333305)
Similar as the Netherlands: there 37 "hogescholen" marketing themselves as "University of Applied Sciences" in English that are not allowed to claim to be "universiteiten" in Dutch (a name is reserved for 14 more academically advanced institutions).
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by ulfw on Sunday February 11, 2024 @03:49AM (#39333535)
Same in Germany where Fachhoschulen (hogescholen) marketing themselves successfully to internationals as "University of Applied Sciences"
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by distances on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:40AM (#39334909)
Same in Finland. "University of applies sciences" is not a real university but rather a lower level institution (ammattikorkeakoulu/yrkeshögskola/Fachhochschule). The difference is clear for locals but I bet many international students have been tricked by the English branding.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by tgv on Sunday February 11, 2024 @04:26AM (#39333727)
Yep. Pretty misleading. They can use it because the law doesn't mention that word, and their management likes to pretend they are running a university, and because they were so focused on attracting foreign students.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by jorams on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:54AM (#39335001)
> They can use it because the law doesn't mention that word

This is not true. The law defines which schools are allowed to call themselves "hogeschool", and also that the English translation of that word is "university of applied sciences" or, if limited to a specific job profile, "university of <said profile>".

See https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/stb-2017-97.html

> Het voeren van de naam hogeschool is voorbehouden aan de instellingen voor hoger onderwijs die zijn opgenomen in de bijlage van deze wet onder g, en aan rechtspersonen voor hoger onderwijs. Onder het voeren van de naam hogeschool wordt tevens het voeren van deze naam in samenstellingen verstaan, alsmede het voeren van de naam hogeschool in vertalingen. In afwijking van artikel 1.22, eerste lid, wordt de naam hogeschool in het Engels aangeduid met «university of applied sciences» dan wel, bij hogescholen die opleiden tot een bepaald beroepsprofiel, «university» met daarachter het vakgebied.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by tgv on Monday February 12, 2024 @11:56AM (#39347198)
Ah, my bad. I didn't know the levels of delusion had gone that far.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by TomK32 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @05:41AM (#39334091)
Germany's and Austrias Universities of Applied Science use the same trick, Fachhochschulen is their German name.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by Tomte on Sunday February 11, 2024 @05:45AM (#39334112)
Not anymore. They have all(?) rebranded to „Universität“ in German.

But that‘s intentional. Former FHs are practically identical in law to universities. They all have the right to promotion, their masters and bachelors are legally identical to universities‘ masters and bachelors.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by RandomLensman on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:15AM (#39334775)
Not true that FH degrees are identical in all respects: for the civil service there is still a difference in pay.

The RWTH in Germany still uses Hochschule, but does add University now to their name.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by Tomte on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:27AM (#39334837)
The RWTH has never been a FH, though. It‘s „Technische Hochschule“ for the same reason why the University of Stuttgart was a „Technische Hochschule“ for a long time: traditionalists insist that a university must have medicine, law and religion.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by RandomLensman on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:34AM (#39334882)
Yes, never FH, but also not university.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by mixed_bag on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:54AM (#39335003)
No, the RWTH is indeed a university. Many (old) THs were granted the status of "Universität" in the 70s and 80s, see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technische_Universit%C3%A4t

And if you don't trust Wikipedia, the RWTH refers to itself as an "Universität", see here for example: https://www.rwth-aachen.de/cms/root/Die-RWTH/Aktuell/Hochsch... Doing so would be illegal if they weren't one, so I don't see where the claim that they're not comes from.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by RandomLensman on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:57AM (#39335017)
Yes, it is (and was for a while now) a university but it didn't refer to itself as university until quite recently.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by mixed_bag on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:47AM (#39334955)
Do you have a source for that claim? This is the first time I'm hearing of a difference in pay for FH and Universität degrees there (regarding bachelor and master, old diploma system doesn't count).
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by RandomLensman on Sunday February 11, 2024 @09:03AM (#39335050)
Have a look here with the references to "wissenschaftliche Hochschule" and some differences between between degrees/needs: https://www.bva.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Behoerden/Be...

(Slide 9, for example).

Edit: you are right that the difference might not always apply, but they are not always identical by default as far as I understand it.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by almostnormal on Sunday February 11, 2024 @06:03AM (#39334183)
The former "Diplom" and "Diplom (FH)" were not identical. When those still existed the distinction of "Universität" and "Fachhochschule" was meaningful. The rebranding is a consequence of the old kind of degrees having been replaced by new ones, not just a marketing trick.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by Tomte on Sunday February 11, 2024 @06:13AM (#39334213)
Yes, you're right, the causal link is this.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by KeplerBoy on Sunday February 11, 2024 @06:25AM (#39334277)
Not in Austria.

There's a very clear distinction between FHs and Universities. Not necessarily in reputation or level of education, but they are separated entities. And you cannot get a PhD from an FH.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by mixed_bag on Sunday February 11, 2024 @06:36AM (#39334329)
I initially wanted to say that this is entirely wrong, but when I went to do a quick check, I found this: https://www.che.de/2023/haelfte-der-bundeslaender-hat-promot... So my knowledge was not entirely up to date.

In short, bachelors and masters are indeed legally identical to the ones acquired at universities, but most do not have the right to promotion. This mostly depends on the state they're in. And they are not allowed to call themselves "Universität" (though some have rebranded to "Hochschule").

All FHs that I know do have an option for getting a Phd through them, but they themselves can't grant them. Instead, an FH can cooperate with an Universität through a sort of loophole. The Phd students spend their time at the FH, but they have two supervisors and get their Phd from the "Universität".

But it seems like it is only a matter of time until difference, too, is no more.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by germanier on Sunday February 11, 2024 @01:25PM (#39337116)
I can't think of a single example of a former FH having rebranded to "Universität". The closest I can think of is the incorporation of FH Lausitz into BTU Cottbus. In any case, there are still >200 FHs in Germany which are not using the "Universität" label and without right to award doctorates. I'm really not sure what you are talking about.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by rcbdev on Sunday February 11, 2024 @01:29PM (#39337169)
You seem to be really misinformed about the legal definitions of these tertiary education institutes in Austria.

Universities of applied sciences are governed under the "Fachhochschulgesetz"[1] (Universities of Applied Sciences Law) while universities are governed under the "Universitätsgesetz"[2] (Universities Law). This carries loads of differences with it, i.e. when it comes to academic freedom and right to promotion. Professors at universities of applied sciences are much more limited in their academic freedom and these institutions do not possess the right to promotion at all.

Not sure where you got your information as it's wildly untrue in some respects.

[1] https://ris.bka.gv.at/GeltendeFassung.wxe?Abfrage=Bundesnorm...

[2] https://ris.bka.gv.at/GeltendeFassung.wxe?Abfrage=Bundesnorm...

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by Tomte on Sunday February 11, 2024 @01:31PM (#39337188)
I haven‘t said a word about Austria.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by rcbdev on Sunday February 11, 2024 @01:38PM (#39337277)
You responded to a comment talking about "Germany's and Austria's Universities of Applied Science" - which countries did you mean if not Germany and Austria?
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by Tomte on Sunday February 11, 2024 @02:12PM (#39337622)
Germany, obviously.

Enough harassment for tonight?

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by jooi29 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @02:12PM (#39337626)
Many have rebranded themselves as "Hochschule" Not "Universität"
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by fl7305 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @07:01AM (#39334440)
> reserved for 14 more academically advanced institutions

So "Technische Universiteit Delft" is not an advanced institution?

In either case, in Sweden "högskola" covers everything from small rinky-dink schools up to KTH (Kungliga Tekniska Högskola) in Stockholm and CTH (Chalmers Tekniska Högskola) which are among the top engineering schools in Sweden.

Both award doctoral degrees. I have not heard many people in Sweden argue that KTH/CTH are not as advanced as the top universities. The difference is just that the technical schools do not have departments for the humanities.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by em500 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:05AM (#39334719)
> So "Technische Universiteit Delft" is not an advanced institution?

It is, and it is also one of the 14 Dutch institutions that are allowed to use the Dutch "universiteit" name. But the English term "university" seems to be unprotected in the Netherlands.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by Tijdreiziger on Sunday February 11, 2024 @02:19PM (#39337708)
Dutch speakers often fall into the trap of equating the terms ‘university’ and ‘universiteit’. Since the English language does not differentiate between the terms ‘hogeschool’ and ‘universiteit’, it is appropriate for both to translate into ‘university’.

(And then, of course, there’s also the term ‘volksuniversiteit’…)

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by alexanderchr on Sunday February 11, 2024 @04:30PM (#39338943)
But KTH and Chalmers are officially universities despite their names. Jönköping was not until recently.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by ptx on Monday February 12, 2024 @07:37AM (#39344127)
> Jönköping was not until recently.

It still isn't. Unlike KTH and Chalmers, "Jönköping University" is listed as a university college, not a university: https://www.uka.se/swedish-higher-education-authority/about-...

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by alexanderchr on Wednesday February 14, 2024 @03:24AM (#39367714)
Yeah you're right, sorry. I confused them with some other school that recently became a university.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by jannw on Sunday February 11, 2024 @10:01AM (#39335416)
The distinction becoming vague is due to the changes regarding the Bologna Process/European Qualification Framework - whereby both Universities and Technical Colleges both award bachelor degrees (EQF6) ... and if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and awards the same EQF paper at the end, then it's the same! I've taught in a programme that is offered in both Universities and Technical Colleges (Law) ... and the distinction becomes that universities are more theory based, whereas technical colleges are more practical ... and that matriculating into a university offered masters programme in NL from a technical college awarded bachelors is made harder (even with the same EQF6 paper) ... not that any other university in the EU would care about the distinction!
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by 7734128 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @02:51AM (#39333296)
Chalmers on the other hand is technically a universitet, but maintains the högskola title in Swedish.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by peterpost2 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @04:18AM (#39333691)
Same for Kungliga Tekniska högskolan (KTH)
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by wodenokoto on Sunday February 11, 2024 @02:49AM (#39333290)
Wouldn’t that also make the professor _not_ a professor?
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by kgwgk on Sunday February 11, 2024 @03:38AM (#39333478)
Are community college professors not professors?
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by bowsamic on Sunday February 11, 2024 @03:56AM (#39333580)
It depends on the country, but here in Germany no
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by red_trumpet on Sunday February 11, 2024 @04:34AM (#39333775)
I'm not exactly sure what a community college is, but in view of the discussion about "Fachhochschulen" above, I want to note that Fachhochschulen do indeed have professors.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by Zetobal on Sunday February 11, 2024 @06:41AM (#39334352)
Volkshochschulen...
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by kgwgk on Sunday February 11, 2024 @07:38AM (#39334606)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_colleges_in_the_Unit...

In the United States, community colleges are primarily two-year public institutions of tertiary education. Community colleges offer undergraduate education in the form of an associate degree. [In addition community colleges also offer remedial education, GEDs, high school diplomas, technical diplomas and academic certificates, and in rare cases, a limited number of 4-year bachelor's degrees.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associate_degree

An associate degree or associate's degree is an undergraduate degree awarded after a course of post-secondary study lasting two to three years. It is a level of academic qualification above a high school diploma and below a bachelor's degree.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by Nine99 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @02:28PM (#39337779)
No.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by Tomte on Sunday February 11, 2024 @05:47AM (#39334122)
Do you maybe confuse community colleges with „Volkshochschulen“?

The latter offer recreational courses, like painting or language learning or Indian cooking, usually one hour per week for a quarter year or so. The courses are held by laypeople.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by bcraven on Sunday February 11, 2024 @04:41AM (#39333806)
It depends on the country:

"In most [UK] universities, professorships are reserved for only the most senior academic staff, and other academics are generally known as 'lecturers', 'senior lecturers' and 'readers'."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_ranks_in_the_United_K...

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by kgwgk on Sunday February 11, 2024 @04:59AM (#39333893)
Yes, the term professor is used more or less generously in different countries.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by nsajko on Sunday February 11, 2024 @04:30AM (#39333751)
For comparison, would Harvard or Stanford be allowed to call themselves an universitet?
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by smarx007 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @07:07AM (#39334466)
A simple test of the rules StackRanker3000 linkes to is whether you'd hold a PhD degree from those establishments in high regard independent of the field. If so, that's a universitet. If you'd only highly respect PhD degrees awarded in a few areas, like STEM fields when it comes to CalTech or MIT, that's a högskola, similar to an institute (possibly polytechnic if it is strong in more than one field).

And as was written above, some establishments, as they grew from institutes to universities, decided to keep the old name, MIT and CalTech included.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by StackRanker3000 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @06:48AM (#39334378)
This may be helpful: https://www.studera.nu/startpage/higher-education/universiti...

> To put it very simply, the difference between universities (universitet) and university colleges (högskolor) is that universities can award degrees at the doctoral (third cycle) level because they have general permission to do so.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by fl7305 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @07:11AM (#39334488)
> the difference between universities (universitet) and university colleges (högskolor) is that universities can award degrees at the doctoral (third cycle) level because they have general permission to do so.

The text wrongly implies that "högskolor" cannot award doctoral degrees. This is not true. It's just that they don't have a built-in general permission to do so.

In practice, KTH/CTH etc have a large number of doctoral students and award many doctoral degrees every year.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by occz on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:44AM (#39334945)
Not to discredit any of what you said, but I believe both KTH and CTH are classified as universities, despite what their names imply.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by boxed on Sunday February 11, 2024 @09:20AM (#39335144)
This is correct. KTH hasn't changed its name because the name has an extremely long history.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by pineaux on Sunday February 11, 2024 @04:47AM (#39333839)
No, they would be considered institutions with too low of a standing.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by pelorat on Sunday February 11, 2024 @06:27AM (#39334286)
To be honest the difference is minimal. I studied CS at Mitthögskolan in Östersund, but didn't complete all points before graduation (still had a paper to write and hand in for one of the courses). A year after graduation, Mitthögskolan became a real university (Mittuniversitetet). I emailed the professor in charge of the course I had not yet completed, wrote my paper and handed it in, then received a university diploma in computer science, even though i technically never studied at a "real" university.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by occz on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:48AM (#39334965)
Is there even a difference at that level of study, which I infer from your post is undergraduate/master?
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by close04 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:53AM (#39334998)
Usually such a promotion between levels for an institution implies they observed for several years the higher standards needed for the higher level. So you studied according to the higher standard but the classification isn’t changed retroactively.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by boxed on Sunday February 11, 2024 @09:18AM (#39335136)
The difference for an institution that was just at the edge was minimal yes. But that's a special case.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by raid2000 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @10:40AM (#39335709)
Sometimes, procrastination pays off!
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by fullspectrumdev on Sunday February 11, 2024 @07:55AM (#39334673)
Until recently in Ireland, third level education places were largely divided into “universities” and “institutes of technology” (previously “regional technical colleges”).

The institutes of technology have been reorganised lately and are now called “technical universities”.

The degree you get is generally much the same from any of them - but for some insane reason graduates of the institutes of technology/technical universities don’t get to vote in the national elections for the upper house (senate). Only graduates of the more prestigious ones get that right.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by disgruntledphd2 on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:09AM (#39334737)
The Seanad thing is just absurd, given that the Constitution was changed by referendum in 1979! It's also worth noting that four universities get three seats, while another has three to itself.

The whole bloody upper house is insane in Ireland, but it's convenient for the legislators so it doesn't get reformed.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by BobaFloutist on Sunday February 11, 2024 @10:17AM (#39335540)
Still not as bad as the English upper house!
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by fullspectrumdev on Sunday February 11, 2024 @11:28AM (#39336090)
I remember while studying at an IT they had a debate there about the potential dissolution or reform of the Seanad, with some senators taking part.

It was deeply funny listening to the sitting senators tell us how important the Seanad is, because for all of us - the Seanad was some useless shit we couldn’t vote for or influence in any real way.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by jowea on Monday February 12, 2024 @03:23PM (#39349963)
> some useless shit we couldn’t vote for or influence in any real way.

I have no idea if it's useless shit and I admit to learning about the Seanad 15 minutes ago from Wikipedia but it seems to me that it's supposed to be a weak technocratic advisory chamber insulated from popular will. At least it seems to make more sense than the House of Lords.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by penteract on Sunday February 11, 2024 @12:18PM (#39336514)
I hadn't heard about any of this and chased some details on Wikipedia; here's some more context for others:

In 1979, there was a referendum in which 92% of the voters were in favor of extending Seanad representation to graduates of other higher education institutions. This changed the constitution in a way that allowed laws to be passed to implement that, but no such laws have yet been passed. There was a ruling by the Supreme Court of Ireland in 2023 requiring a law to actually be passed, but the ruling is currently suspended until 26 May 2025.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Amendment_of_the_Const...

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by idiotsecant on Sunday February 11, 2024 @02:05PM (#39337555)
So if you don't graduate university you have reduced voting rights?!
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by jan_Inkepa on Sunday February 11, 2024 @03:54PM (#39338584)
For one particular pool of candidates fighting over university allocated senate seats - you still have regular voting rights.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by fullspectrumdev on Sunday February 11, 2024 @09:38PM (#39340808)
For the upper house, yes.

As a graduate of an institute of technology, having transferred from a university, I don’t get to vote in the Seanad (senate) elections at all.

To clarify: most upper house seats are elected by members of parliament. There’s a pool of seats reserved for graduates of a subset of universities to vote on.

It’s terribly undemocratic and needs to be reformed or abolished.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by jowea on Monday February 12, 2024 @03:17PM (#39349878)
It was/is a thing in some countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_constituency#Irelan...

But the Irish Senate has a relatively unusual composition and voting system anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seanad_%C3%89ireann#Compositio...

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by apt-get on Sunday February 11, 2024 @12:23PM (#39336565)
Similar thing in France, however related to degrees: a Master's Degree fits within the common framework of European tertiary studies, AKA your 2-year graduate cycle that ends up totalling 5 years if you include a standard undergrad cycle (Licence). However, a "mastère spécialisé" (which is an actual trademark) is not an officially recognized diploma at all, but a label used by schools to denote (usually paid and expensive) "specialization paths". They provide no academic credits, and you can't move forward to a PhD with one. Many prestigious schools (grandes écoles) provide those kind of certifications to clueless foreign students who end up paying huge sums of money for something that holds no formal weight in any academic framework.
Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by rcbdev on Sunday February 11, 2024 @01:21PM (#39337083)
Something very similar in Austria - you can get a free Master's degree (1-2 years) by doing a study programme ("Studiengang") at a university, that will also qualify you for a PhD. Or you can pay for a Master's course programme ("Lehrgang") that costs ~15k€, is usually a lot easier and does not qualify you for a PhD.

The difference here is that you are allowed to wear the title of MSc either way and both programmes do confer ECTS points - only the latter does not qualify you for a PhD.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by oohffyvfg on Sunday February 11, 2024 @01:30PM (#39337174)
in most countries the term university is reserved for institutions which provide graduate (undergrad optional) degrees in four (three in some places) major fields (sciences, humanities, medicine, etc)

nothing else.

usually just adding a business major to a place with medicine, engineering and law is enough to cross the threshold and jump from college to uni.

Re:Undisclosed tinkering in Excel behind economics paper by zdimension on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:42PM (#39340561)
In France, "Licence" and "Master" (Bachelor's and Master's degree respectively) are protected diplomas that can only be delivered by universities (or by schools that depend on universities).

To circumvent this, private non-state-certified schools deliver things called "Bachelor", "MSc", "MBA" or "Mastère" that walk and quack like regular diplomas but since they're using those specific names, they're not actually state-recognized diplomas. Which means that if a company is hiring "people with a Licence" they can reasonably deny someone with a "Bachelor" because even though it's also a 3-year degree, there is no guarantee whatsoever that it's actually worth anything. Anybody can create a company and hand out sheets of paper with "MSc in Psychoceramics" written on it.

This is a big problem for high schoolers who usually don't know the difference and end up paying thousands of euros for private schools that deliver close-to-worthless degrees (not all are worthless, but their worth is mostly correlated to how well-known the school is, whereas if you get a real state-certified degree from a random university anywhere in France it'll be recognized by any company).