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Re:True Name – Mastercard by gruez on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:45AM (#38902680)
>When Asher DiGiuseppe tried to make a purchase at his local Toronto liquor store, the clerk looked at him with suspicion and questioned his card, which was still printed with the name he had used before transitioning.

>[...] New research by Mastercard across 16 countries in North America and Europe revealed that 59% of people who identity as nonbinary say they feel unsafe while shopping, and 57% say they think it’s important that companies and organizations address them in a way that respects their identity.

Is this a serious issue? I don't think anyone ever checked the name on my credit card. Even when I was carded at a liquor store, they'd only check my government id, not the credit card itself. Also for online payments I don't think the "cardholder name" field is even checked, so you can put whatever you want. Therefore I'm not sure what the point of this is, other than trying to score some PR points.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by MissTake on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:06PM (#38902918)
Yes, it’s a serious issue.

Eons ago when I first started to transition I was prevented from making a purchase once because my card didn’t match my female me.

The clerk then seemingly took delight in increasing the volume of their voice when informing me.

The irony being that at work one our cute “pretty plastic people” girls used the male bosses CC all the time.

Should it matter? No, but until people evolve into human beings and leave their bigoted transphobic selves behind, anything like this can, and will, be used as a tool to embarrass and harass transgender people.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by 93po on Sunday January 07, 2024 @03:56PM (#38905048)
Thank you for sharing, that sounds really shitty
Re:True Name – Mastercard by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Sunday January 07, 2024 @06:49PM (#38906464)
> at work one our cute “pretty plastic people” girls

What does this mean?

Re:True Name – Mastercard by MissTake on Sunday January 07, 2024 @07:18PM (#38906655)
Girls who wear more makeup than comes out of L’Oréal every six months, more perfume than Dolce & Gabanna creates a year, and horribly fake fixed smiles designed to endear themselves to anyone they wish to suck up to.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Sunday January 07, 2024 @07:55PM (#38906937)
I think that's mean and borderline sexist or misogynist.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by defrost on Monday January 08, 2024 @04:49AM (#38909943)
It's mean but hardly sexist or misogynist unless you yourself think the description embraces all or most women.

I might make a mean spirited remark about boy racer rev heads, but that's directed at a specific subset of the much broader male spectrum.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by jikoko on Sunday January 07, 2024 @10:45PM (#38908012)
How typical of the type of man you are to make such misogynistic comments towards women.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by MissTake on Monday January 08, 2024 @04:42AM (#38909892)
I’m a trans woman.

The females I’m referring are the vapid shallow ones that are on par with the hyper masculine males one also gets.

And I didn’t coin the phrase where I work - It was used initially by a cisgender female coworker who’d been stabbed in the back by more than one of these girls.

For the longest time these PPP girls were in senior positions in the company and always seemed to get away with doing the smallest amount of effort possible.

So no, no misogyny here - a PPP could also include males as well.

They have fake personalities and use that to their advantage with no real honesty.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by jjallen on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:46AM (#38902695)
I’ve been checked many many times. If not it would be very easy to commit fraud
Re:True Name – Mastercard by maxk42 on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:49AM (#38902721)
But this would just mean the name on the card does NOT match the name on the ID. How does this help with the issue of fraud at all?
Re:True Name – Mastercard by chalst on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:54AM (#38902789)
That’s an issue that can be dealt with by calling the card issuer.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by gruez on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:17PM (#38903022)
How is that supposed to work? The toll free number on the back of my card just goes to some customer support line with 30+ minute wait times. There's absolutely no chance that a cashier is going through that for a typical transaction. Also, the whole point of this program is to make this less awkward for transgender people. Being deadnamed might be bad, but at least it's straightforward. The cardholder name matches the one on your government id, and the picture in the government id matches your face, done. I'm not sure how having mismatched names and having to call the bank is more pleasant.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by chalst on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @03:21PM (#38931535)
Not being able to call your card issuer is a reason to change issuer. I would put 30+ minutes wait time in this category, although I know someone who is a seasoned hand when it comes to getting through tasks during phone waiting times.

It would be nice if card issuers avoided deadnaming, but there could be an innocent explanation for why a card was issued with the wrong name.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by threeseed on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:57AM (#38902821)
I can't speak for wherever you are.

But in most countries they don't require ID in order to make a credit card purchase.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by jonathanlydall on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:59AM (#38902855)
In South Africa, I tap to pay practically everywhere and no one ever looks at my phone (or prior to my getting Apple Pay, my physical card). In the last 12 months I had to insert my card for chip and PIN maybe twice.

Speaking of chip and PIN, before tap to pay became prominent, people actually never touched my card, I would insert it myself (reducing risk of fraud) enter my PIN and all the merchant cared about was whether the the machine said “approved” or “declined” after doing an online check.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by ohmaigad on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:58AM (#38902833)
This has to be a USA thing right? In the 15 years i have had debit/credit cards in the EU nobody has ever checked the name on it. In fact, since the rise of contactless all the card info is now on the backside and not on front as before. Not to mention the fact that quite a few people today pay by phone contactless.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by gruez on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:49AM (#38902726)
Are we talking everyday purchases (eg. buying groceries), or high risk transactions like buying $1000 worth of prepaid cards?
Re:True Name – Mastercard by namdnay on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:48AM (#38902718)
how do they do it for contactless?
Re:True Name – Mastercard by teeray on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:50AM (#38902748)
> Is this a serious issue?

A bigoted store clerk might decide to apply different standards to trans people, to find a way to kick them out of the store. So yeah, my experience is similar to yours, but I don’t doubt that credit card names could be weaponized against trans people.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by sokoloff on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:55AM (#38902794)
True, but does having another name on the credit card actually address this genuine problem?

(I think people should be able to use their chosen name on their credit card; I think that adds comfort to their regular interactions and daily life; I just don’t think it will act as an Uno Reverse card against someone prone to bigotry against them.)

Re:True Name – Mastercard by snotrockets on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:59AM (#38902837)
Yes. Some of us like to imagine trans* people as those drag like personas, a clownish caricatures of their genders. This isn't the case though: most are just, you know, people. You wouldn't know they are trans*, except for their name. And unlike that Johnny Cash song, being a boy named Sue doesn't build character. It just makes your life miserable.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by nilespotter on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:06PM (#38902915)
> You wouldn't know they are trans*, except for their name.

Here’s another delusion I won’t participate in. We all, each and every one of us, make a crossdresser within 0 seconds of meeting him. There’s like 12 of them that pass.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by snotrockets on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:14PM (#38902996)
trans* people aren't crossdressers, and no, you wouldn't.

Pick a random thirst-trap influencer: on almost every post on their TikTok or Insta you'd see multiple comments suggesting they are trans.

Simply, there isn't a way to tell because as there is no biological marker that is a binary, as much as some would like to believe otherwise. Sex is a bimodal distribution, and as such there are people, cis and trans, that don't look like the gender you'd imagine them to be.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by camdenlock on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:27PM (#38903107)
Sex is not bimodal, it’s binary. We as a society have to be able to just get past this. I, for example, am a male (sex) - but I identify as a woman (gender identity). These two things can be true at the same time, and do not conflict.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by snotrockets on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:31PM (#38903136)
Biological sex markers are bimodal. Just ask the nearest health researcher: there isn't a single one that is strictly male or female.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by camdenlock on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:46PM (#38903286)
That’s fine, but sex itself is still a binary concept and is very well defined, and is not controversial. For example, my sex is “0” (and not “1”) because my body is capable of producing “0”-style gametes, not “1”-style gametes (feel free to substitute the usual names for each sex, but you get the point).
Re:True Name – Mastercard by snotrockets on Sunday January 07, 2024 @01:10PM (#38903523)
One of your sexes, perhaps: there isn't a single marker for sex (and some of those we like to think of such markers aren't binary, but we can drop those for this exercise)
Re:True Name – Mastercard by camdenlock on Sunday January 07, 2024 @02:39PM (#38904422)
“Markers” are irrelevant. Either your body is capable of producing male gametes or it’s capable of producing female ones.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by ceejayoz on Sunday January 07, 2024 @05:53PM (#38906071)
That's just trivial to debunk. Infertile people may produce neither.

Less trivial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/46,XX/46,XY

https://academic.oup.com/bjs/article-abstract/69/5/279/61857... "Ovulation in a cytogenetically proved phenotypically male fertile hermaphrodite"

Ovotesticular syndrome: https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/ovotesticular-disorde...

Re:True Name – Mastercard by camdenlock on Sunday January 07, 2024 @08:31PM (#38907213)
There are still only two types of gametes, and a body may produce only one. Infertility and other disorders don’t change that fact, and your linked material says nothing to contradict this.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by ceejayoz on Sunday January 07, 2024 @08:48PM (#38907334)
You could at least bother to read the titles; "Ovulation in a cytogenetically proved phenotypically male fertile hermaphrodite" is pretty clear.

> Histology of his removed ovary suggested that ovulation had, at some time, occurred. He had also fathered a child and this is believed to be the first case of a cytogenetically proved true hermaphrodite who is fertile as a male.

That's a single human body that produced both forms of gamete.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by camdenlock on Sunday January 07, 2024 @09:00PM (#38907419)
People of ambiguous sex exist, and there are only two sexes. I suspect you’re more than capable of accepting these two truths simultaneously.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by ceejayoz on Sunday January 07, 2024 @09:48PM (#38907678)
> For example, my sex is “0” (and not “1”)...

So, which is this individual, who produces both forms of gametes?

Am I, with no gametes, a null?

Re:True Name – Mastercard by camdenlock on Sunday January 07, 2024 @10:08PM (#38907803)
I’m confident that you’ll figure it out on your own.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by cuino on Sunday January 07, 2024 @10:54PM (#38908059)
Identifying as a woman (gender identity) does not mean you are a woman (female sex). Being male precludes this in reality.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by sokoloff on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:09PM (#38902953)
Imagine there’s a chance that you might be wrong.

How would you possibly know the false negatives (the you “missed”)?

Re:True Name – Mastercard by nilespotter on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:24PM (#38903079)
Good point, I guess they could also be Men In Black aliens too and I wouldn’t know that either.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by gruez on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:58PM (#38903396)
That doesn't answer the question. How are you so sure that you're not missing out on any? It's not like at the end of the year you get a report of all the trans people that you missed.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by MissTake on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:14PM (#38902999)
Bullcrap you can.

Once my hormones kicked in I was able to blend in so well that some of my friends didn’t believe me when I said I was trans.

And I got that confirmed from a third party who is honest beyond a fault.

And there’s a world of difference between crisscrossing and being transgendered.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by dang on Sunday January 07, 2024 @03:31PM (#38904859)
This comment and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38903037 go beyond just posting about a controversial topic and cross into attack, name-calling, and slur. We ban accounts that post such things, so please don't do it again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:True Name – Mastercard by nilespotter on Monday January 08, 2024 @08:21PM (#38921008)
I disagree. I objected to the implied demand that we all collude to pretend that these people trick us into thinking they are the opposite sex. I didn't slur or attack anyone. If you want to cultivate yet another place people can't speak simple truths online, delete my account.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by jannyfer on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:56AM (#38902808)
It’s definitely just for PR points.

In Toronto liquor stores, the point of sale payment terminal is on a stand, facing the customer, and you tap or use chip + pin yourself.

If you get asked, you to have to show your government ID.

Re:True Name – Mastercard by snotrockets on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:56AM (#38902809)
A very popular POS used by many order-at-counter restaurants and cafes has an option, configured by the merchant, not the customer (!), to use the name on the credit card as the name called when the order is ready.
Re:True Name – Mastercard by Hamuko on Sunday January 07, 2024 @11:49AM (#38902720)
I've never had the name on my credit card checked since no one has ever handled my credit card outside of me.