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Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by dylan604 on Sunday December 03, 2023 @10:43AM (#38507869)
>consumers of cocaine have their share of responsibility too.

consumers of any product. consumers of chocolate are responsible for... consumers of electronics are responsible for... consumers of cotton are responsible for...

there's only so many options consumers really have. there are somethings you cannot vote with your wallet. blaming addicts teeters precariously towards victim blaming.

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by 11235813213455 on Sunday December 03, 2023 @11:04AM (#38508037)
totally right, consuming is polluting, which is a big responsibility nowadays for the environment

So the best is to minimize consumption, and obviously things like drugs, travel, and many things are not essential products

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by para_parolu on Sunday December 03, 2023 @11:47AM (#38508394)
And having children
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by JumpinJack_Cash on Sunday December 03, 2023 @01:03PM (#38509200)
"You'll own nothing and you'll be happy eating bugs"
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by 11235813213455 on Sunday December 03, 2023 @01:39PM (#38509536)
I already eat bug from a lot of foraging and fruit market waste, not very intentionally, but they are there and they eat the same thing, so can't be bad, extra proteins actually
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by Scoundreller on Sunday December 03, 2023 @01:05PM (#38509212)
No need to minimize consumption for cocaine, ~90% of the resources used are in the distribution.

If legalized, the cost of distribution would crater to that of other products, just a few dollars per kg.

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by 11235813213455 on Sunday December 03, 2023 @01:35PM (#38509510)
it costs pollution to grow, transport, stock, plastic-wrap, etc..

it's like saying: "it doesn't cost pollution to buy those avocadoes grown in another continent since they're already there", it's true immediately (above all if very ripe), but in the mid-long term, reducing consumption reduces production & pollution (at all level of the chain)

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by Scoundreller on Sunday December 03, 2023 @02:30PM (#38509949)
Sure there are some essential production and distribution costs, but let's remember that cocaine is a minimally processed leaf extract.

You can industrialize its production and get close to sugar level production pricing and distribution. Sugar sourced from Brazil hits my Toronto supermarket shelf bagged at CAD$1.50/kg at 99.9% purity, including retailer markup. Which is like 1/50000th the retail price of cocaine.

Even if it costs 10x as much due to lower volume/weaker extracts/slower growth/additional processing, you're talking a 99.9something% reduction in resource expenditure per dose.

Price of something is a good representation of the resources destroyed ("costs") in its production.

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by fsociety on Monday December 04, 2023 @01:56AM (#38514383)
Minimally processed leaf extract? You make it sound like extracting cocaine is the equivalent to making sugar.
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by OfSanguineFire on Monday December 04, 2023 @10:44AM (#38518644)
Most sugar today comes from beets and is extracted through an industrial process. Drug cartels rely on things like gasoline because they are commonly available, but if there were not criminal sanctions on the process, then it’s possible some higher-quality means of extraction would be employed.
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by Scoundreller on Monday December 04, 2023 @10:55AM (#38518805)
It’s almost all from sugarcane in Canada, crude juice is extracted in places like Brazil and refined in Canada.

You can chew out the sugar or cocaine if you like.

(I think coca needs an acid base extraction to get a crystalline form, but that’s straightforward chemistry at scale)

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by OfSanguineFire on Monday December 04, 2023 @12:17PM (#38520019)
Most sugar in my own backyard originates from beets, but I see I was wrong about it being most sugar worldwide. Wikipedia[0] gives a figure of 30% of world sugar for 2013.

If crude juice is extracted in Brazil and refined in Canada, I’m surprised that it is viewed as cost-effective to transport so much unneeded liquid by sea.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_beet

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by Scoundreller on Monday December 04, 2023 @01:56PM (#38521435)
I could be mistaken on the form of sea transit. I just know it gets refined in Canada (which also seems like a waste: why not refine at source?).

Sea transit is cheap, sugarcane grows better in the tropics than beets in cooler places. Harder to harvest below-ground stuff.

Canada used to subsidize/protect sugar beet producers (to keep them competitive), but largely got out of it.

Maybe that’s why we still refine it: because the plants still exist.

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by qwytw on Thursday December 07, 2023 @05:14AM (#38554816)
> it’s possible

Nope it's not possible and it's more than obvious way.

The cocaine content in coca leaves is 0.23% to 0.96%. Sugarcane has a magnitude or so higher sugar content.

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by Scoundreller on Monday December 04, 2023 @10:58AM (#38518848)
It is. Then you’re an acid-base crystallization away to powder product.

Cocaine is not a synthetic drug. Been around long before any human was walking around.

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by dylan604 on Monday December 04, 2023 @02:46PM (#38522152)
But it's the refining that is modern. Chewing on coca leaves is not the same thing as a little key bump. Let's not try to confuse what's happening
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by Scoundreller on Monday December 04, 2023 @05:59PM (#38524398)
Solvent-extraction and crystallization isn't very modern.
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by DontchaKnowit on Monday December 04, 2023 @01:59PM (#38521491)
Are we really arguing about the pollution caused by the cocaine trade instead of the violence and destruction of lives for addicts. What a proposterous contention
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by dbsmith83 on Sunday December 03, 2023 @03:13PM (#38510336)
Right, let's just sit around in our tents in the dark and try not to move or speak unless absolutely necessary. Moving is not always essential, and has a caloric cost, which means food consumption. Are you sure being on this site right now is actually necessary? In fact, why bother being alive at all?

Yeah, have fun with that. I'm going to enjoy my life!

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by beAbU on Sunday December 03, 2023 @06:48PM (#38512015)
Tents are made from nylon, and nylon is made from fossil fuels!
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by dbsmith83 on Sunday December 03, 2023 @09:07PM (#38512945)
Jiminy Cricket, you're right! We shall build dung huts instead to be even more eco-friendly
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by beAbU on Monday December 04, 2023 @03:18AM (#38514898)
Nerd snipe: Will the sequestered carbon from a grass and dung hut make up for the CO2 expended in manual labour to build one.
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by Borg3 on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:07AM (#38516765)
Humanity can have just 2 modes of operation (3th one is fake path). 1) is to consume less and less, so we end up like living in tents in dark with population 10B and more.. 2) Smart-manage population growth and cut bullshit jobs, so we end up with 200M-300M people living good live.

The choise is yours. I personally would go with (2) option, but its just me.

Before anyone hit the downvote button, think about it in math. You only have limited amount of resources and energy. How you distribute it, is up to you.

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by kortilla on Sunday December 03, 2023 @02:22PM (#38509883)
This is bullshit. Many cocaine users are not addicts but are just people with money partying.

They are not victims and even the addicts are not absolved of responsibility for their actions.

If an alcoholic drives drunk and kills someone, they don’t get an exemption.

If you buy cocaine from dealers known to be violent, you don’t get an exemption either. More generally, if you buy cocaine that comes from a violent cartel (most of it), you’re supporting the cartel.

It’s a party drug, you have a choice. Check yourself into rehab if you don’t.

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by Scoundreller on Sunday December 03, 2023 @03:59PM (#38510704)
I'm sure most buyers would looooooove to buy organic artisanal cocaine direct from the farmer shipped by DHL. But various governments make that impossible, so I'd pin the blame solely on governments.
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by dylan604 on Sunday December 03, 2023 @04:48PM (#38511097)
Gives a new meaning to farm to table
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by Ckirby on Sunday December 03, 2023 @06:18PM (#38511803)
If I buy drugs from a dealers known to be violent, then fuck you, that's just what's available
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by DontchaKnowit on Monday December 04, 2023 @01:58PM (#38521470)
Well fuck you, cause you are supporting violence just to selfishly feed your drug habit.
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by Ckirby on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:22PM (#38525327)
You are part of the problem, I've seen your idiotic comments about drugs being caustic and your other comments defending creationism

I don't know what to make of you, you are either 12 years old, east Asian, or mentally ill

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by DontchaKnowit on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:33PM (#38525886)
You are the one defending your negative externalities with the highly compelling "fuck you" argument.

Also many drugs are caustic so Idk what your problem is with that. And I've never defended creationism.

Also super cool of you to be openly racist.

I don't understand why you are being hostile.

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by Ckirby on Monday December 11, 2023 @07:02PM (#38607243)
Ofcourse you don't, you got your head so far up your self-righteous ass that you didn't even notice how inappropriate your reply was
Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by DontchaKnowit on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @01:36PM (#38616351)
How was my reply innappropriate at all.

You are the one suggesting its okay to buy a non-essential good from an enterprise which murders and tortures and thieves and rapes as part of their business strategy because "fuck you" its the only business selling.

That is pure unadulturated selfishness.

By the way, ive done the same thing, I just didnt fucking lie to myself about it to make me feel good about my decision.

Re:Inside Job: How a Hacker Helped Cocaine Traffickers Infil... by fragmede on Sunday December 03, 2023 @03:11PM (#38510315)
So what you're saying is we need free trade, ethical cocaine (along with coffee, electronics, and cotton).