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Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by musha68k on Saturday November 04, 2023 @01:21PM (#38143115)
Open source / homebrew hardware will be the only way out of this.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by gduplessy on Saturday November 04, 2023 @01:38PM (#38143306)
Is it even possible to homebrew a modern computer chip?
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by FFP999 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @01:41PM (#38143328)
I wanna say I read about some high schooler recently making _a_ microprocessor in his garage, but I'm guessing it's a very simple one, not what we would consider a modern design.

Also I could be thinking of something else entirely so, before repeating this, you'll probably want to google it.

Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by narinxas on Saturday November 04, 2023 @01:43PM (#38143348)
no. and even if it were then are people whose job is to make sure it never really takes off.

why? because power.

what do do about it? get power. how to do that? dunno. If I told you then my own purported (and protracted) attempts would diminish. at least we don't get assasinated to death anymore..... ahahahaha (just our characters, andor career prospects, etc)

Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by dylan604 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @02:06PM (#38143600)
by modern do you mean just the capabilities of or include the size of as a requirement? If you accept that a DIY processor can be the size of a room and not be portable, then maybe???? Expecting a DIY to be miniaturized, then hellz to the naw
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by dividuum on Saturday November 04, 2023 @02:17PM (#38143699)
Precursor (https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/precursor) is interesting with its use of an FPGA.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by gduplessy on Sunday November 05, 2023 @07:59AM (#38150751)
That is pretty interesting, thank you!
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by amelius on Saturday November 04, 2023 @03:26PM (#38144278)
Nope, even an EUV light source would be close to impossible.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by FFP999 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @01:28PM (#38143191)
On a technical level, sure. In the bigger picture, I'm concerned that that is simply too esoteric an interest for it to have any significant impact.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by fsflover on Saturday November 04, 2023 @03:55PM (#38144537)
Almost any innovation starts like this.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by FFP999 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @06:59PM (#38146109)
I certainly would _like_ to believe that...I'm gonna have to think about this some.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by amelius on Saturday November 04, 2023 @01:31PM (#38143225)
And tinfoil.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by FFP999 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @01:37PM (#38143297)
There are better materials to make a Faraday cage out of, but foil is cheap, I'll concede that.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by swader999 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @01:57PM (#38143506)
It's pretty hard with tinfoil. Try it with an am radio. It takes several layers, no small gaps to kill the signal.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by FFP999 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @02:03PM (#38143567)
TIL.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by BobaFloutist on Saturday November 04, 2023 @01:48PM (#38143407)
Would it not be easier to find the backdoor and use it to patch itself?

Basically rooting the phone but on a firmware level?

Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by swader999 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @01:55PM (#38143492)
Airplane mode does work. I can put an emf meter up to my Android phone and nothing comes out of it. Same with the device off.

But is it still recording for later transmission? Perhaps!

Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by dylan604 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @02:03PM (#38143566)
If you're willing to believe anything can be put in passive mode, you'll absolutely drive yourself mad. There's no way to proove that a device is not listening passively, so of course people will say it is.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by mrcode007 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @02:47PM (#38143963)
Anything with an integrated circuit can be proven to be not operating based on power consumption or switching noise of the transistors in the device.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by theamk on Saturday November 04, 2023 @02:49PM (#38143979)
Modern microphones need input clock to operate, and are physically incapable of listening when the clock is absent.

This gives a trivial way to detect of the device is listening passively, at least on the workbench.

Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by dylan604 on Saturday November 04, 2023 @03:53PM (#38144524)
I don't even know what the "mic needs a clock" means. I've never used a microphone that needed a clock. Making a mic that needs a clock just seems like a "WTF were they thinking" kind of thing. Can you elaborate on this concept of requiring a clock for a mic?
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by theamk on Saturday November 04, 2023 @06:13PM (#38145719)
The keyword to search for is "digital mems", and of course we are talking individual parts to place on PCB, not the consumer device. Here is one random example: [0]. Somewhat expensive at $1 ea, but that's what you pay for US manufacturer.

This microphones take 2.4 MHz clock and return PDM (pulse density modulation) signal. Does not seem very convinient for old-school analog electronic circuits, but it's pretty trivial to interface with any micro with pulse counter hardware.

And presumably the audio won't have any hum or interference from nearby radio transmitters, which is especially useful in cell phones.

[0] https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cui-devices/CMM-4...

Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by fsflover on Saturday November 04, 2023 @03:57PM (#38144559)
My phone has hardware kill switches for modem, wifi/Bluetooth and mic/camera.
Re:Ask HN: How would French police locate suspects by tappin... by solardev on Saturday November 04, 2023 @03:50PM (#38144494)
Do those meters work across all frequencies?