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Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by Mistletoe on Thursday October 05, 2023 @02:51AM (#37775591)
I can’t quite make out from the paper but did they just kill eight cats and remove their larynx for this experiment? Was it really worth doing that to determine this? I don’t think learning this was worth even eight cats dying and being mutilated if so. I’m from academia and science and I keep getting more disillusioned with the whole thing the longer I’m in it.
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by PetitPrince on Thursday October 05, 2023 @02:58AM (#37775624)
They were already dead cats.

From the material and method section:

  > The larynges were harvested from animals that had to be euthanised due to terminal disease unrelated to the respiratory tract in veterinary clinics in Vienna, Austria.
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by OnlyMortal on Thursday October 05, 2023 @12:50PM (#37780929)
Schrodinger has entered the chat
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by orra on Thursday October 05, 2023 @02:55AM (#37775613)
Why would you assume that? A, nobody wants to murder eight cats. B, it'd probably be illegal.

> The larynges were harvested from animals that had to be euthanised due to terminal disease unrelated to the respiratory tract in veterinary clinics in Vienna, Austria. The animals’ owners gave their explicit consent for the larynges to be investigated postmortem.

Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by defrost on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:31AM (#37775787)
> A, nobody wants to murder eight cats.

Many people embrace the idea of murdering more than just eight cats and actively develop better methods to do so:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-29/feral-cat-management-...

https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/felixer,-the-grooming-trap,-...

    A feral cat management device that uses lasers and sensors to specifically target cats has been shown to be effective in a field trial in remote South Australia.
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by rob74 on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:54AM (#37775918)
Well yeah, in Australia cats are an invasive species and a danger to local wildlife, so the situation is a bit different than in other parts of the world.
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by defrost on Thursday October 05, 2023 @04:10AM (#37776037)
Domestic cats are essentially introduced | invasive everywhere surely?

    It turns out that domesticated cats have no native range. Originally bred from wild cats and introduced to North America by European colonists, domesticated cats are now listed as one of the top 100 invasive species worldwide by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cats-invasive-species-in-your-b...

It's not just Australia they were introduced into.

Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by RandomLensman on Thursday October 05, 2023 @04:27AM (#37776134)
In most European countries there is no "original" nature left (many thousands of years of humans changing the environment) so talking about invasive species etc. in relation to cats doesn't really make sense there.
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by defrost on Thursday October 05, 2023 @04:56AM (#37776344)
In the context of a claim that Australia is unique in considering domestic cats invasive most European countries are irrelevant given the entire New World as sufficient counter example.
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by RandomLensman on Thursday October 05, 2023 @05:13AM (#37776438)
The post I replied to makes a broader point than just Australia ("invasive everywhere").
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by defrost on Thursday October 05, 2023 @05:25AM (#37776513)
The post you replied to questioned whether they were considered invasive everywhere and asserted that they were on a global list of the 100 worst invasive species.

All as counter to the claim that Australia was unique in considering cats a nuisance.

It seems that assertion is true:

    38. Felis catus

    Felis catus was domesticated in the eastern Mediterranean c. 3000 years ago. Considering the extent to which cats are valued as pets, it is not surprising that they have since been translocated by humans to almost all parts of the world.

    Notable predators, cats threaten native birdlife and other fauna, especially on islands where native species have evolved in relative isolation from predators.

    Common Names: cat, domestic cat, feral cat, Hauskatze, house cat, poti, pusiniveikau
GLOBAL INVASIVE SPECIES DATABASE

http://www.iucngisd.org/gisd/100_worst.php

Is there nowhere in Europe where cat populations are kept in check to protect birdlife and other local native species?

Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by RandomLensman on Thursday October 05, 2023 @05:39AM (#37776591)
In Western Europe, not really to that end other than quite localised.

But even then the discussion has to be what is a native species (with birds that can get quite odd with species disappearing and reappearing hundreds of years later, for example). There is just no real nature left, i.e., more about deciding when to make a cut.

Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by sidewndr46 on Thursday October 05, 2023 @09:25AM (#37778306)
This has to be one of the wackiest takes on cat domestication I have ever read. Cats were domesticated long before Europeans showed up in North America.
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by defrost on Thursday October 05, 2023 @07:31PM (#37785551)
That's exactly what the admittedly clumsy quote says if you reparse it.

> Originally bred from wild cats

Once wild, now domesticated ..

> introduced to North America by European colonists

what was introduced to North America?

> domesticated cats are now listed as ...

oh, yeah, domesticated cats were introduced to North America.

Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by astrange on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:00AM (#37775630)
And then they mounted them on Legos.

> After removing excess tissue and all but four tracheal rings, each larynx was mounted on a vertical tube that could supply heated (∼37°C) and humidified (100% humidity) air. Larynx stability was maintained with an adjustable plastic support structure (using LEGO blocks, Billund, Denmark) and 3D-printed plastic mounts.

Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by Scoundreller on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:17AM (#37775713)
they probably needed something reliable
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by mojo74 on Thursday October 05, 2023 @04:22AM (#37776102)
Pride of place on the mantlepiece along with a Death Star and Saturn 5 lego set. Head to https://ideas.lego.com/ to realise the dream...
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by hexfish on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:54AM (#37775917)
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by lynx23 on Thursday October 05, 2023 @04:00AM (#37775966)
Nobody is unfortunately wrong. I know a few real life stories about young boys murdering cats in all sorts of weird and horrifying ways. Some kids are unbelievably cruel.
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by j7ake on Thursday October 05, 2023 @02:54AM (#37775602)
The larynges were taken from euthanised cats that had terminal diseases.
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by bbarnett on Thursday October 05, 2023 @02:55AM (#37775612)
Would you presume murder, if a scientist worked on a human cavadier?
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by JCharante on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:18AM (#37775715)
It depends on the maturity of the field. In the 1800s? Absolutely. Animal rights are behind that of humans in the 1800s (yes I know human slavery was common at that time, and that’s my point, humans were treated as property and not as people with rights, which is how our legal frameworks view non-human animals now)
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by behringer on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:24AM (#37775747)
No reasonable scientist would have been murdering people in the 1800s...
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by TeMPOraL on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:40AM (#37775837)
I doubt there were many "reasonable scientists" in the 1800s.
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by magicalhippo on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:43AM (#37775850)
Sure, you get someone else to do that[1]. Don't ask, don't tell of course.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_and_Hare_murders

Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by rsynnott on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:44AM (#37775857)
I have… bad news: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke_and_Hare_murders

Rule of thumb, when dealing with the 19th century: assume pretty much any level of cruelty, depravity, or plain stupidity was up for grabs (you have all three here, the stupidity being around the laws which made this industry inevitable). It wasn’t a very nice time, in general.

Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by lynx23 on Thursday October 05, 2023 @04:03AM (#37775985)
That is a pretty naiv assumption.
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by behringer on Friday October 06, 2023 @06:29PM (#37797182)
Congrats you found one example. I could probably list a dozen from recent times too.
Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by __alexs on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:18AM (#37775719)
They didn't kill any cats but also as a long term and very loving cohabiter with multiple cats, they are just cats.

Animal cruelty is a serious problem because it makes some people miserable to see them suffer and the ones it doesn't make miserable are possibly dangerously psychotic.

This isn't that.

Re:Domestic cat larynges can produce purring frequencies wit... by acosmism on Thursday October 05, 2023 @03:59AM (#37775955)
i’m genuinely curious about how you feel about killing insects in the name of academia and science. the same?