After the rug pull of the Pixel Pass, I'm done with Google. That was one of the scammiest things they've ever done. I'm still fucking pissed about it and it's been a month.

I am not sure why people think it was scammy? Pixel Pass was a glorified device financing option. Unlike Apple iPhone Upgrade Program where you trade in your phone. The upgrade isn’t free you still need to pay monthly for next two years when you upgrade. You can still upgrade for much cheaper with 0% financing. Also when you subscribe to Spotify or Netflix is there an expectation that you get the same price you signed up for when they increase price? That is the same happening here. For two years people got the Pixel Pass were paying for the device financing + perks. They only paid for device they got and not for any future device. Take a look at Pixel financing cost it is much cheaper than Pixel Pass and when you finance you have the option to trade in old phone and get reduced finance rate.

The tone of the parent post might not have been ideal, but it is correct on the facts. By ending the program, the opportunity lost to subscribers was to begin financing of a new device with a new 24 month contract period. There was no sweetheart discount involved in getting a new device.

To be clear, I’m a mild Apple apologist and strong Google critic, but even I can see this wasn’t scummy. It was only disappointing. (And even then, it shouldn’t have been disappointing. Google is famous for three things: search, ads, and cancelling stuff.)

I don't understand what opportunity was lost? They are still offering 0% financing which is still cheaper than Pixel Pass. On top when you add trade in, it's even cheaper. With Pixel Pass you cannot trade in.

I hate Google management (as opposed to the company's good products). I signed up for You Tube Premium Lite just 9 months ago. Received by email this morning (below), they tell me I was one of their first subscribers, but they're discontinuing the product and canceling our business relationship without prejudice and without looking back. How has this become a way of doing business?

Hi Bill,

Thank you for being one of our first Premium Lite members.

We're writing to let you know that after 25 October 2023, we will no longer be offering your version of Premium Lite. While we understand that this may be disappointing news, we continue to work on different versions of Premium Lite as we incorporate feedback from our users, creators and partners.

We will cancel your membership on 25 October 2023. Your Premium Lite benefits will expire at the end of your billing cycle and you will not be billed further.

What would you rather they do? Upgrade you to the current Premium plan, raising your price?

They should have kept YouTube premium and YouTube music as separate options, in addition to having a bundled subscription. A lot of people have a problem with being forced to pay for both when they only use YouTube for non music viewing.

Not end it? That is pretty obvious.

If it's so hard to offer less service at a lower price, then they should upgrade but lock in the old price for... let's say 5 years.

It's just such an awful, uninspired, sad way to conduct business. There's no actual information in the email "we continue to work on different versions of Premium Lite as we ...". So is there a different version of Premium Lite they could move me too? Who knows, I suppose I need to go and research that myself, they're certainly not giving me any options or offering any kind of sweetener. If they're sincere in their stupid "thank you for being an early customer to our new product we're now killing" sentiment, they should do something like automatically upgrade me to the Premium plan for a decent period, say a year, without raising my price.

If Google had any faith in their product lines, that email would have a big call to action making it easy for a subscriber to switch plans. It’s weird that they just don’t seem to care at all about dropping subscribers, like they expect to fail and expect to be unable to upsell.

Going further into Google’s mismanagement of their products, I used to be all in for anything Nest, even though we’re also part of the Apple cult. We bought everything: the thermostat, cameras, fire alarms, and Nest Secure: their security alarm system. They had a sale on Nest Secure and I thought that they were being aggressive on subscriber acquisition. I was extremely wrong. It was actually a scammy fire sale since they ended up cancelling the Nest Secure product line one month later. To add insult to injury, Google wouldn’t even refund me my money. I had to go through my credit card to return and repeatedly dispute the charge from Google’s Store (already returned / RMA’d the product since it was also defective).

Needless to say, we are no longer invested in anything Nest related including the hubs. We even cancelled our YouTube premium subscription because of this mess. Now, we are completely all in with Apple’s ecosystem. We will never trust Google again for anything beyond their free services.

To be fair, Google is slowly starting to realize their marketing and product management missteps given how they handled stadia. Still, we’re not coming back.

re: thermostats, camera, fire alarms etc.. what did you move to? I'm looking for something integrated as well. I would really love for google to get their shit together, but rational thinking says I can't with Nest one way or the other.

In short, we just moved to Apple HomeKit and used whatever was compatible with it.

There are issues with setup since most of these products aren’t from Apple. However, the fact that it works offline without internet makes it a worthwhile upgrade. The caveat is that you need an Apple TV or HomePod to act as the hub. Like everything Apple it’s not cheap, but I’d rather spend money instead of time, and I just want it to work without the looming threat of cancellation.

not to mention, all that nest hardware is now hardly-recyclable and highly polluting waste.

so long for the environment, i guess.

Why do you think it was scammy?

I was done years ago and look upon with admiration those done with them a decade or two ago.

Google is just YouTube to me now. I am amazed at how their management hasn’t seriously tackled the reputational crisis their company has. That being their reputation for abandoning their products to save Google money at their customers expense.

Google at this point is a PR machine for Microsoft and their commitment to long term support and I don’t even like Microsoft.

> I am amazed at how their management hasn’t seriously tackled the reputational crisis their company has.

What crisis? They've got billions pouring in through ads on Search, YouTube and Android. They can mess up everything else and keep axing products that only bring in tens of millions because that looks like a pittance in comparison.

The beancounters/MBAs ruining it as usual. Dislike my negative tone here but what else could i say?

> The Nexus 5 had a bootlooping issue

Are you sure that wasn't a Nexus 5X? I'm still using a Nexus 5 (running some LineageOS fork) as a media controller.

I had a Nexus 5X that bootlooped, so I traded in its replacement for a Pixel 2, but its microphone died, and its replacement had a perma-locked bootloader... but the Nexus 5 is still doing fine.

Yes, it was a Nexus 5. There's been several phones that have had this issue from Google... which is all the more reason I wouldn't buy another Google hardware device.

I had a Nexus 5X that bootlooped, but if IIRC from my research at the time, Nexus 5 also had the same problem, albeit seemingly to a lesser extent.

It was both, but they bootlooped for different reasons. Nexus 5 had a faulty power button that could fail in a couple of ways. Nexus 5X was something about how the components on the PCB were constructed being of iffy quality. You could get lucky and never have the 5 fail whereas the 5X was/is guaranteed to fail. I bought a 5X purely for device testing. It was basically unused 99% of its lifetime (6+ years) and eventually started bootlooping last year.

The Nexus 6P was also famous for having a bootloop issue as well as suddenly going dead despite showing that it still had a good charge.

Both my wife and I had these and, despite initial promise, they behaved horribly. One particular issue was overheating and shutting down. IIRC the boot loop issue, when it eventually struck, was worked around by a hack to disable two CPU cores. Due to this and the poor performance of Wear OS (or was it still Android Wear at that time?) we switched to iPhones. I note that the reason I first got a 6P was because my 6 completely died one day and a 6P was the only available insurance replacement. Despite all this, I'm likely to by the Pixel 8 and Pixel Watch 2 to replace my iPhone 8 plus.

I have to admit, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum there, having had both devices

I loved my 2012 Nexus 7, and was a Day 1 upgrader to the 2013 model (my Mom enjoyed the 2012 for many years for eBooks and Facebook)

My Nexus 5 I was also a day 1 purchase, upgrading from a slowly deteriorating Galaxy S2. Unfortunately I had to replace it much earlier after I slipped and fell on uneven concrete and shattered the screen

If Google could just take the SoC of the Pixel 6/7/8/whatever and stuff it in the housing of the Nexus 7 2013, give it a modern battery and a nice OLED screen it would truly be the best tablet on the market. But instead they want "bigger" and are chasing after the iPad with the new pixel tablet

> But instead they want "bigger" and are chasing after the iPad with the new pixel tablet

I bought a 11" tablet BECAUSE it is much bigger than a phone, so I can comfortably watch videos and read technical documents. I might have considered as small as 8", but 10" was really the minimum in my mind.

Given that most android phones are 6-6.5" already, why would anyone buy a 7" tablet in addition to their phone? Maybe as a throwaway gift to a child? Would the market be large enough to be worth it?

I have an iPad mini that I really like. A nexus 7 with a slightly smaller bezel and updated internals would be a really nice device. It's a nice size for casual games, video watching, and a great size for reading manga or books. The only option for a small tablet on Android really is the Fire tablets from Amazon, but they're really lacking in performance, which limits what you can do with it.

But in general I find Android tablets to be pretty lacking in the software support department, even though hypothetically it should be a great platform.

If they could just make the Nexus 7 with better bezel-to-screen (maybe something similar to the Pixel's?) it would be perfect

I want something I can comfortably hold in one hand to read books on, a 10 inch iPad or Samsung is just too big (and heavy) to do that, and a phone just feels too squashed at the same time

I'm probably in a hell of a niche but it truly was just the perfect 'sweet spot' size for me

Such tablets are now sold as "foldable phone". I love it for reading everything and fits in my pocket, but it's expensive for who just want a Nexus 7 2023.

I like small phones. I have an iPhone 13 Mini, and have never had the desire for anything larger. They drive me nuts. I'm usually carrying two, and the bulk adds up.

I also have a 7" tablet. Small enough to fit into any backpack, pocket, my wife's purse, etc. Still large enough it's usable with a kickstand and Bluetooth keyboard.

If I want to do real work, I'll just use a PC. The small tablet is a great middle ground away from home.

True. My MIL is still using that Nexus tablet thought it is completely battered but she only needs Candy Crush.

My 2013 Nexus 7 refused to die- I used it until late 2022, when I finally replaced it with a Samsung Galaxy Tab A, which is almost as good though I miss the "pure Android" minimal experience; I don't care for Samsung's additions to the base Android platform.

Funnily enough I followed the Nexus 7 with a Samsung Tab A 10.1 and that also became an almost unable laggy mess in short order. The iPad mini bought around the same time as the Nexus for my wife if still going fine, as well as my grandmother's iPad. As much as I don't want to this point I think if I ever need a tablet again (I do like them for PDFs and schematics, but I have never found a good way to send and organise files for quick access that makes it worth it), I might just forgo Android tablets and go to the dark side.

> I have never found a good way to send and organise files

I use the Note To Self channel in Signal for that. Cross platform, desktop, tablet & mobile. Before i used KDE Connect.

We had two 2013 Nexuses: one with 3g radio and one wifi-only.

First, the 3g one died, on sudden black screen of death. Then, year or two later, the wifi one, on the flash deterioration.

The flash issue wasn't problem only for Nexus. The Asus Transformer line had exactly the same problem (Nexus 7 was made by Asus).

The 3g one was replaced by Sony Xperia Z3 Tablet Compact. That thing still lives, albeit it is on Android 6 and the battery life is short. Too bad Sony doesn't make tablets any more.

> My opinion of Google has gradually deteriorated over time to the point now where I actively avoid using anything made by Google

It's worth pointing out the Nexus 5 released 10 years ago and things have definitely changed (improved, IMO) in that time.

Owned a Pixel 1 in the past, and it started to suffer from the same issue, so this may be an inherent problem in flash storage (at least as it's implemented in mobile phones).

That might be a coincidence as Nexus 5 was made by LG while Pixel 1 was by HTC.

For years now, phones use UFS storage which is significantly more resilient to degradation. Which is why longer support cycles are necessary.

I don't think Nexus phones were built by Google. They always had a different manufacturer, unlike the Pixels.

> unlike the Pixels.

Only after Pixel 3 (where they started working with Foxconn):

- Pixel 1: HTC

- Pixel 2: HTC

- Pixel 2 XL: LG Electronics

Yeah I feel like Samsung has a very good value proposition in 2023. I guess my biggest thing is it requires you to remove all the bloat and adware as a prerequisite.

I really tried to ride that train, had a Nexus 6, which got stuck in an unrecoverable boot loop after a year, after that a Nexus 6P which bricked itself similarly, and then a flagship Samsung Note something, which couldn't be charged because of "moisture in the port" after a year, despite it being completely dry, after which the battery inflated so much it blew open the whole case.

Then I bought an iPhone 11 Pro and it "just works" to this day, with no replacement needed in sight. After years of being that guy who explains the "dangers" of walled garden ecosystems to my boomer iPhone parents, I joined their gang and have been living carefree since.

Same. I had both those devices and at the time of purchase they were a great value contrast to the iPhone/iPad. But, after the issues you describe I went back to iPhones and never looked back. Google had a great opportunity that they squandered.

I still have a functional Nexus 7 that I used as an ebook reader for a long while until replacing it with a kobo e-ink device. The N7 still boots. I wonder if there's anything useful I could do with it. It paid for itself many times over in the first 3 years and everything at this point is just bonus.

Is yours the 2012 or 2013? I think they resolved the storage issue in the 2013 model. Unfortunately, I had the 2012.

2013. At 10 years old I'd bet its time to replace or get rid of the battery in there.

My thought when I read it as well. I've owned Nexus 4, 5, 6, Pixel 1, 2, 3, 4 and finally gave up. Half of these phones were purchased because the previous model crapped out. I am not a heavy phone user either. I think I stuck with them because there was always some integration with Google and iPhone that didn't make me happy, but whatever it is must have been solved by the time I got an iPhone because I'm on three years with mine. Probably won't replace it for another three years.

Nexus products weren't _technically_ made by Google. 5 was LG's design and 7 was Asus'. During this era Google specifically stuck to working on the software while passing on the technical designs to other partners.

Pixel 6 Pro and Watch are great and I've had no hardware or software issues of any kind.

> The Nexus 7's storage degraded, which rendered the device unusably slow. I thought it was the upgrade to the next version of Android that did it, but downgrading it did not fix the issue. There's been some workarounds that made it slightly more usable but ultimately it was a serious hardware defect that made it unbearably slow to use even with these workarounds.

It's worse these days than in the nexus days. Google slaps extremely cheap NAND into their phones and it ends up failing after 2-3 years of daily use. Everyone I know that uses pixel phones either cycles through a new phone yearly or gets bitten by a sudden hardware failure and swears off the brand entirely.

Frankly, Google are too cheap and they expect their users to not care. I will never forget them trying to push the idea the Nexus 10 felt like a premium device . . . to whom exactly? Shame as well, as in some important respects it was way ahead of the curve, even if fatally flawed.

Samsung hardware (and Huawei if you can still get and use it) is superb by comparison, but they just can't help themselves when it comes to the creepiness of the user experiences.

> I will never forget them trying to push the idea the Nexus 10 felt like a premium device

To be fair Nexus 10 was a premium device (with its 2GB RAM and 2560x1600 screen in 2012). I still have mine and runs without any issues (except the degraded battery).

> Samsung hardware (and Huawei if you can still get and use it) is superb by comparison

Nexus 10 was built by Samsung.

That's exactly the mentality I'm on about - specs do not mean premium. The fit and finish of that device was dreadful, as well as the overall feel in the hands. It may have been made by Samsung but the design was very Google driven.

Google simply don't understand what matters.

My Nexus 7 had the same issue. It's a shame really because for the first 18 months I owned it I loved it. In it's prime, I think it's still my all-time favorite device.

Once it slowed to the point of being unusable, I gave it to my son to tinker with. He loaded an alternative OS on it and that worked for a while but eventually it also slowed. Last I knew it was serving as a print server for his 3D printer although now I think it lives in a bin with other outdated hardware and about 100 cables that we haven't thrown out yet.

The nexus 7 storage was an issue with one particular flash module that was used in some of the units. It can even be replaced though it's a lot of work requiring specialised tools unfortunately.

IMO it's all downhill since nexus one, and Apple has just always been terrible.

I don't think Google do thermal cycling on their phones as part of the development cycle.

If they did, the phones would be much more reliable. If the phone can survive cycling between -25C and 85C 2000 times, then it will most likely survive many years in your pocket.

They should also test weeks of salt spray and hours in a tumbler with sand dust and lint.