not me thinking about the “not emulator” first, and I drink it!

Right there with you!

Had the same reaction. Was hoping for some mid-90s wine screenshots!

Yeah, I was expecting an interview with Bob Amstadt and Eric Youngdale.

Corrected link: https://wiki.winehq.org/Wine_History

This is more along the lines of what I was expecting lol

Georgian winemaking has very old roots and is underappreciated internationally. Great place to visit if you want to sip and talk good wine around many other wine lovers (lots of home grown cha cha too)

To clarify: Tbilisi, not Atlanta. (People in Georgia, US try to grow wine but it is not good.)

Actually, West Georgia/East Alabama had a history of wine production before prohibition. It's very slowly coming back as century-old alcohol laws slowly get repealed. (And then unrepealed, and then rerepealed. It's been rocky.)

You might be better off trying wines made with the muscadine, North America's own native grape, as it tends to handle hot and humid conditions better than traditional wine grapes.

I am super into the international wine scene, and I have friends who are super into the international wine scene, and these friends are actually graduate students studying the Georgian language, and they spend significant time in Georgia. Georgian wine--I won't classify it as good or bad but rather--is concentrated, thick, and rich. If that's your flavor profile, go for it.

winemaking around the world has changed dramatically in over the last 40 years due to much more sophisticated university study and programs in winemaking. Much more control can now be exercised over the winemaking process to ensure the profile you want, on top of the essential nature of the terroir involved. I don't know how much Georgia is participating in this process or if it remains traditional.

Italian wine forty years ago was generally pretty horrible, and now it is my favorite. To me, it's not a matter of parochialism, just the flavor profile I like. That period of time generally represents the younger university educated children inheriting the vineyards from the "farmer" older generations.

This is the reverse of last week's "Why Fennel?": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37497131

Software developer and aspiring 7th generation winemaker from Georgia (Republic of) here.

We're proud of Georgia being one of the oldest wine producing regions. In fact, it is called Cradle of Wine for a reason. Per Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine#History): > The earliest known traces of wine are from Georgia (c. 6000 BCE).

Also, traditional Georgian winemaking is something worth exploring if you're a wine enthusiast: wine being made in the large clay pots (Qvevri) buried in the ground. Long maceration/skin-contact, 500+ endemic grape varieties, etc...

P.S. Check out the website of my family's small winery: https://www.chekura.wine

How interesting. Would you happen to know any good labels and vintages that might be available for purchase in the US?

If you are in the SF Bay Area, Piala in Sebastopol and Healdsburg imports and sells Georgian wine.

They may ship to you in other parts of the US too (but I would not recommend it — natural wine degrades quite fast when shipped with traditional couriers)

> natural wine degrades quite fast when shipped with traditional couriers

It's sporadic to achieve and maintain the needed natural sulfur level in the wine. In most cases, you must add some sulfur to maintain wine stability for shipment. Many natural wine brands refuse to use any SO2 at all.

Imagine you're a small winery, poured your heart and did your best to make a great wine. Now it's time to ship overseas... by NOT adding any sulfur, you risk your product getting damaged. A small amount of sulfur is a small compromise you make to make your wine more stable and ready to be shipped overseas.

My general advice, not related only to Georgian wines, would be to seek small (boutique) producers in a mid-range ($15-30) category.

I can name a few good brands available in the US: Orgo, Baia's Wine, Rosha Winery (one of my favourite red wines).

Drop me an email (found in my profile), if my ex-importer/distributor still has some bottles remaining, I will try my best to send you some.

i bought from potomac wines some good georgian wines in the past. also total wine carries in it shops georgian wine

Awesome that your family has resumed traditional methods with what I imagine to be traditional grape varieties. The subject fascinates me.

On a similar note, there are a handful of wine producing countries whose products are very hard to find in the west. I suppose that they would be less special if one could buy them everywhere but still... lots to discover. Santé!

Thank you for your kind words!

The problem with wine products being available on the US market is very complex. The main issue is US laws, taxes, and procedures.

As a small producer, to make my wines available on the US market, I need to find a licensed alcohol importer (~35% added margin). Alcohol importer is eligible to only sell wines to the licensed alcohol distributors (another ~35% added margin). Alcohol distributors are qualified to only sell to licensed retailers (another ~35% added margin). Add production and transportation costs to the US, and the price gets very high. Even if the market can bear such high prices, the procedures are so complex and out of producers' control that it's very unattractive market. Add the complexity of state laws and taxes. Each state has different requirements.

Several years ago, I imported a test batch of my wines to the US. Some bottles might still be available in the shops (3 shops in Delaware, Maryland, and New Jersey). Imagine you need an excellent importer/distributor willing to go the extra mile for your product. In that case, it takes a lot of work to find success. You may have a fascinating wine but may get stuck in these bureaucracies.

I was thinking of going D2C via an online store. However, most of the states don't allow shipping out of state. Besides, you still have to go through all those procedures mentioned above.

Hence, the US market is on hold for me right now.

I can't speak for the US since I don't live there although I admit it is a very big market...

In wine producing countries in general, and the US is one, one will encounter a lot of 'non tariff barriers to trade' (i.e., administrative challenges) that make the import of foreign wines difficult. To be frank, and despite the expense that you correctly underline, I can only imagine doing so with the help of an enthusiastic importer.

I know a retailer in Switzerland who would probably love to import Georgian wines (and many others, as long as they fit his taste) but the quantities would be so small to not even be worth your time.

Anyway, I do hope to visit Georgia one day and your cave.

Hey! Thanks again!

This leads us to another problem: you cannot easily sell niche products on a large market (Georgian wine and amber wine is one), mainstream customers want mainstream wines.

So, you are left with several options: 1) Do a mainstream wines - beyond my values; 2) Build a brand, which is very, very hard… 3) Do an exceptional wine, “so good they can’t ignore you”… that’s my long term goal. That’s why I am experimenting a lot, which I believe will lead me to a great results. Right now my wine could be ranked as top 5-10%, but my goal is to make it in top 1-2%. Check back in a few years :))

As somebody’s who traveled to Georgia, I can’t recommend visiting enough. Amazing food and wine, culture and sights.

Georgian food is a talk for another day. Separately :)

It’s criminally good.

Your website says 'We expect our wines to be ready for bottling by the end of 2021'. How did they turn out?

It's a bit outdated website. Sorry for that :)

The 2021 vintage was very good, but the recent ones are even better. Sadly, we only produce experimental wines (new varieties, blends, different techniques) right now. Last year, we made 12 various experiments. Out of them, we will blend some more, and we will receive 20+ different wines.

My current goal is not to rush into the markets and start selling. I prefer to do experiments for several years, hear knowledgeable people's feedback, and then select the winners.

Any ancient varietals still in cultivation?

Almost all of them. Only few varieties are hybrid or manually breeded.

Out of those 500+ varieties, around 50 are in production. The rest are either very rare to find, are grown in a small quantities or are kept in the vine nurseries as a collection varieties.

Saperavi (red) and Rkatsiteli (white) are amongst the most popular, though there are other ones that are really good: Mtsvane, Chinuri, Kisi, Tsitska, Aleksandrouli, Shavkapito and my personal favourite - Usakhelauri (once I opened a bottle at home and within a hour aromas were spread across the whole house like a premium fragrance).

Is it a bad sign that I thought of this first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)

You're not the only one who did ...

[stub for sweeping offtopicness under the rug]

TYFYS