That's basically my plan, and to work on hobbies. Try not to get burned out by the next CRUD app startup I work for, learn some language that interests me, and live my life. It's nice, as a contractor, being able to take off a week randomly and not really feel hit by the lost income because I've refocused my life to downsizing expenses and upsizing enjoyment. Keep up with enough stack-mania to keep an income until I can call it quits for good.

I’m one level ahead of you (L7) but, like, why does there need to be something “next”? I’ll make a seven-figure TC this year. That’s enough! I spent about $50k last year, and I live in New York.

My manager talks about getting me to L8 all the time and it’s exhausting. I’m done! I’ve won the income game! She is very career oriented and cares about climbing the ladder, I do not.

I’ve never actually cared about “career goals” or done “growth” really, I don’t think I’d actually be unhappy if I was stuck at L5 making a mere $400k forever. That’s a really high income, an integer multiple of what my parents ever made.

So my “what’s next” is keep throwing it into VTI and then retire in a few years.

FWIW there were very little politics involved in my L7 promotion, I just wrote a lot of good code and mentored some people to do the same.

I'm not jealous (we've got a great work/life balance and a good mission), and I've heard of those compensation levels before, but something about the way you said "merely 400k" made me realize that those single salaries are more than my entire team(5 sysadmins and a manager)'s compensation.

I mean that a bit sarcastically to be clear. It’s a ridiculously good income. If you read Blind, there are a lot of L5 that are so upset about not getting L6, I think it lacks perspective.

Yes I realize I’m saying this and I make a lot more, but if I was “stuck” at $400k I don’t think I would be upset.

The median household income in NYC is something around $75k.

400k isn’t that outrageous for higher level IC positions, especially in the NYC market.

Oh I know, and usually I'm pretty jaded (I live in a lcol area so even tho I make less than than 75k I live comfortably). But tonight for some reason it really sunk in how cheap human labor in this area can be.

This makes me curious what the HN consensus is about reasonable salary ranges along the east coast.

Would you like another mentee?

I think I’m actually a pretty bad mentor!

I can’t really do the career or manager interaction stuff well because I don’t care about it personally and I don’t have any problems myself with my manager being incompetent or changing all the times.

I think that’s correlated with my somewhat unintentional success, but “have a better manager” or “don’t get reorged by directors playing game of thrones” isn’t actionable advice.

What I am good at is technical stuff, so if I have a person that is 1. technically competent and with the right attitude (IYKYK) and 2. good and technical manager then I and they do very well. But that’s very situational and also the technical stuff is very company specific.

Well if not mentee how about some free money for referring a new hire :-D

You should put your email in your profile.

I'm an old L5 and I'm quite happy to stay at that level indefinitely. I make more than most people and I don't have the skills to handle pressure at L6.

The $50k spend is interesting with NYC rents being so high, apparently

1. We own at a low interest rate, so I don’t consider the principal part of payments to be spent. Barring NYC housing market crash, that money will come back. It’d be like counting money invested in index funds as “spent”.

2. Split completely evenly with partner. This also saves on “per household” things like internet, power, heating.

3. It’s still a big part of the spending, proportionately!

I just don’t spend that much. Don’t drink outside, don’t go out for dinner at fancy places, never order delivery (it doesn’t even taste good! Soggy food sucks!), don’t take Uber ever or even the subway much, ride a fixed gear bike around mostly. Exercise is using said bike rather than paying $300 for a fancy gym. Take vacations, but prefer camping and hiking to resorts or fancy expensive cities. Don’t stay in luxury hotels, have never considers paying for business class. My hobby is playing mostly cheap indie games that I still waited for a Steam sale on, and it’s all stuff like Rimworld that you play for 400 hours. Or watching free YouTube videos.

This is straight out of Mint (obviously rounded) so it’s not a lie!

Nice, you are on “FIRE” by the looks of things. Impressed with both the income and that frugal setup!

Just curious: what are you looking for? I tend to assume that staff-level ICs have a pretty good setup as far as established expertise and freedom to choose what they work on (though that varies a lot). What tangible benefits other than higher pay are you looking for with that next step?

Not saying the financial benefits aren’t worth it by themselves. Asking because I always figured I’d probably top out where you’re at, and I’m wondering what the view is like there.

The answer is always some form of “share your knowledge.” But that’s the point where the well-trodden career path ends and you either hang out at the depot at the end of the road or you set out bushwhacking on your own to figure things out. There’s no pay-scale signposts. You become slightly unrecognizable. And everything becomes new again, which is extra challenging to your old -ass self, because you’re pretty comfortable in your ways. But, if you persist with it, I believe (I’m not there yet), there’s nothing more rewarding than seeing your knowledge sprout into a forest.

What are you looking for in context of "Next" ? Better management position? Better technical challenges ? Better health ? better pay? All four ?

This is where we as an industry need to embrace unions and let folks like you mentor and train younger developers.

“Let” assumes they want to do mentoring and training. Which a lot of people do, but not everyone.

I'm curious if you are relating these two ideas or if you're treating them as separate. Is there a connection between unions and mentorship?

Giving folks a path into IT via apprenticeships would be a lot easier with a union to support/enforce career growth/mentorships. Unions could also help create more developer co-ops that can offer onboarding and retirement.

Somewhat unrelated, I'd love to see some kind of code dividend for folks where you keep earning money from code you wrote (that hasn't been rewritten). I think the IP assignment stuff we all have to sign is ridiculous when it creates so much value. We are signing away our right to future profits.

That's literally what we're being paid so much for, and what those stock options we're showered with are for. The idea is that developers build future value of the company, so instead of being rewarded in commission like sales people, we get stock grants.

They can do that without unions, not sure why those are a necessary condition for mentorship.

I’m definitely not going to trash unions, big Billy Bragg fan here, but mentorship and training of less senior people is already basically table stakes expectation for staff+ engineers at any competent tech company.

I actually think it’s overemphasized on the internet, if anything. Staff+ engineers should still edit (I don’t say “write” because “delete” is even better) code. Otherwise what’s all the training for? Getting the senior- engineers up to “mentoring” roles, to train even more senior- engineers, …?

Find a place where principal isn't awarded for winning a political battle. They exist. You sound like you might be happier there.

Yeah if you reject 2 options out of hand and leave yourself with the option you like least it is going to seem like your options are limited.

You advance in either lifestyle or risk (maybe both). Managers are better equipped to optimize and climb established business structures. ICs are better equipped to create new products or at least jump into a nimble team. Maybe you should take more risk on special projects in your organization, spearhead new technology shifts, or join a startup (giving substantial due diligence to understand the feasibility of a startup business plan from a technical perspective).

If you're maxed out on pay, maybe retire early and do something you enjoy?

I'm stuck as a mid-level making below median dev salary at a not great comapny and I will never be anything more. Eventually you come to terms with it... mostly at least

Where do you think you’re getting stuck?

The biggest factor is probably my disability. It doesn't really matter though.

I can see how that can make things more challenging.