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Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by elihu on Monday July 31, 2023 @11:04PM (#36951832)
You are on a ship, far from land. It appears to be taking on water. There are a thousand passengers, from whom they select a captain before each eight hour shift. Any one captain may only serve two shifts. The captain has some leeway to decide what to do, but unlike a normal ship, the policy is actually set by the crew, who are elected to represent various portions of the ship. There are also a group of nine passengers who decide whether the captain and crew are correctly following the crew's policy. They can be replaced if they get tired of the job and quit or die in office.

Activities on the ship include partying, bailing water, inspecting the hull for leaks, and repairing holes.

The passengers are divided into factions who believe the ship is not taking on water, those who believe it is taking on water but it's happening slowly and won't be a problem for a long time, and those who believe that only immediate action from most of the passengers can prevent the ship from sinking.

Good luck.

Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by JoeOfTexas on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @12:20AM (#36952252)
You just spawned a good genre of games, thank you sir.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @03:21AM (#36953314)
It reminds me of a big swathe of survival and/or base building games where you have to balance out things just right, or real life games like Werewolves.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by ben_w on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @05:57AM (#36954226)
Now I'm imagining a variant of Werewolf where only a handful of the players even know how many werewolves there were at the start, possibly zero, and there are also non-werewolf causes of death.

Will the villagers wipe themselves out in a witch-hunt?

Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by siva7 on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @03:38AM (#36953418)
May i ask what genre?
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by JoeOfTexas on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @09:23AM (#36955629)
Doesn't have a name, but a mix of battle royale, among us, and Oregon trail.

If I had to call it something, perhaps...

Civil Royale

Treaty Jam

Governot

Pavillion Shorts

Rotator Commandant

I dunno, something to that effect.

Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by mrguyorama on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @02:38PM (#36960413)
It's closest to a "hidden role" game, like werewolf or Town of Salem.

There's a general task that everyone (often even called a "crew" in space based flavors) has to complete to win, but there are people who are essentially secret saboteurs who are trying to complete a different objective that often explicitly causes the rest of the players to lose.

Look up Secret Hitler, which explicitly has you voting for government leader, different factions, and voting for which actions to take as a government. Your goal as the crew is to vote for democracy or uncover hitler, and your goal as hitler or a facist is to do facism.

Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by thih9 on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @03:10AM (#36953245)
I’d suggest another activity as an option for the people onboard: fishing.

It increases the score of the person doing that, but also increases the mass of the ship and speeds up sinking. The crew gets a fishing bonus.

Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by throwawaycities on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @04:25AM (#36953696)
I was hoping fishing would be suggested, that’s where I come in…

You see in order to fish, you need:

1) to learn to fish with the proper fishing education. I’ll set that up and teach you but it will cost you. You will pay with 33% of the fish you catch for the remainder of your life.

2) a rod And bait following your education. I’ll also supply that, but again it will cost you. Since you can’t pay up front, I’ll extend you credit, and you will also pay as a percent of future fish. This time with a Variable Interest Rate up to 25% as permitted by the crews’ usury laws (after all we wouldn’t want you being exploited).

3. permit applications, and lucky for you I’ll help you with that also, but there is the matter of my fee as well as the fee for the permit which must be paid annually. As a courtesy I’ll waive my fee so long as you give me the first 100 fish you catch as a second in line creditor to the permit office which gets the first 50 fish you catch.

4. Taxes for the luxury of being on the ship and fishing from the ship. These are progressive taxes to make this fair for you and so taxes are determined by the total number of fish you catch. It’ll be somewhere between 10%-40% of your fish. Technically you could pay 0%, but the bad news is you’ll starve to death if you pay 0%. Note if you mess up the calculations there are extra penalties and fees, and potential jail time if you are found intentionally cheating on your fish taxes. Once again you’ll probably want my services to figure out your fish taxes, because let’s face it, I specialize in counting/managing your fish & you’ll need every minute to dedicate to fishing if you ever plan to have something to eat for yourself.

Roughly you will owe about 98% of every fish you catch to creditors and taxes, this is after the first 150 fish which come right off the top.

Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by proudeu on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @04:33AM (#36953751)
But if you own 90% of all fish then those taxes do not apply to you
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by komali2 on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @08:40AM (#36955226)
Due to historical reasons there are several people on the boat who actually own 90% of all the fish in the ocean. If you catch a fish, you pay them 90% of the value of the fish.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by gabereiser on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @12:22PM (#36958171)
Tuna Soprano of the Atlantic, it has to go through the middlemen first to shave that 10% down to 1%.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by gabereiser on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @12:21PM (#36958146)
$19.99 for the fishing DLC season pass to reduce my fishing tax to 1%. Golden rod (premium) that blinds fish into taking the bait and other fishermen away from my $49.99 DLC instanced fishing spot. No rod tax (premium), and a discount on next seasons fishing big bad bass DLC 2.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by midoridensha on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @10:14PM (#36966141)
>Note if you mess up the calculations there are extra penalties and fees, and potential jail time if you are found intentionally cheating on your fish taxes. Once again you’ll probably want my services to figure out your fish taxes

Don't forget, the fish tax collection agency already knows how many fish you've caught, but won't tell you what they think your numbers are. Instead, you need to independently provide your numbers and hope they match. Or you can hire one of their "partners" who will help you file your fish taxes correctly, for a fee...

Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by golergka on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @06:00AM (#36954237)
You are on an internet forum. You are attempting to describe a very complex societal issue in very simple terms, using an analogy. Your description lefts out many important details and other present or potential problems, as you concentrate on a single issue. In your description, all democratic checks and balances are effectively portrayed as stupid and time-wasting. You end up with apologia for fascism.

Good luck.

Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by robertlagrant on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @06:39AM (#36954453)
I don't understand; what single issue is it concentrating on?
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by simple-thoughts on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @06:58AM (#36954559)
Most catastrophic thinking is related to climate change, though of course it could also be referring to the inevitable end of the solar system as the sun expands.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by qwery on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @07:35AM (#36954770)
I thought most catastrophic thinking would be related to personal minutiae. That's why its "catastrophic thinking". Changes to the global climate and the systemic and societal upheaval in response to those changes are significant.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by yitianjian on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @09:02AM (#36955407)
Could be just the general deadlock and inability to come to consensus about any long term future threats. Could be AI, climate change, housing crisis, China, etc. But you’re right, likely climate change.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by concordDance on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @06:26AM (#36954380)
Not fascism, dictatorship/monarchy maybe.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by iLoveOncall on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @07:37AM (#36954778)
You could have just said you don't believe in climate change buddy.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by golergka on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @08:00AM (#36954909)
The fact that you are feeling confident making such assumption just because I disapproved an ship-gaining-water analogy is exactly the problem with public discourse I wanted to highlight.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by komali2 on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @08:41AM (#36955235)
In the USA, isn't it the fascists and proto-fascists that are the ones denying climate change? I don't think there's any ecofascism movement there at all.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by golergka on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @08:46AM (#36955272)
You seem to have an assumption that there's only one side who employs totalitarian tactics and not both of them?
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by Aunche on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @09:15AM (#36955543)
The premise of this ship analogy seems to be that most people are too idiotic to make large-scale decisions and that the people who agree with OP should be in charge of everything.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by komali2 on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @09:53AM (#36955973)
Ah, I can see it. I feel like it's more a criticism specifically of US civics (a direct shot at the supreme court for example) and US anti-intellectualism (some of the passengers believe the boat isn't sinking at all), but pulling back from that context and I see how it could be seen as apologia for various forms of nonrepresentative government.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by Aunche on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @10:43AM (#36956581)
Right. A operating a ship is a terrible analogy to operating a society because it's primarily a technical operation that requires leadership to make split second decisions that everyone follows. Obviously, a Supreme Court is worse than useless in such a context.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by HPsquared on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @08:27AM (#36955120)
Title: The Ship of State
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by clucas on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @08:39AM (#36955220)
StateCraft
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by HPsquared on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @09:44AM (#36955859)
Was more a reference to Plato.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_State

Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by rapnie on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @11:32AM (#36957338)
Coursewhere
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by r2on3nge on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @03:34PM (#36961423)
This is mental to be honest
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by javajosh on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @09:35AM (#36955772)
>The captain has some leeway to decide

The ship is doomed, then. A captain must have total leeway to decide for a ship to survive and thrive. There must be no external limits to his power, but morale is a thing, and when morale gets bad enough there is mutiny. Which is why the real limits to power must be internal, called "self-restraint", and therefore the success of the ship rests in large part in the ability of the crew to identify this virtue in a captain, in addition to his ability to run the ship.

The virtue of self-restraint is dying in today's world; many successful leaders are famous for not just not having any, but actively deriding the idea of having any. Sadly, the only way humans seem to learn this lesson is full-blown Collapse. The cognitive dissonance we need is to both fight for self-restraint and so against Collapse, and also accept the inevitable defeat with equanimity.

If you are doubtful of the value of self-restraint, look to all the countries and governments that embrace the strong-man philosophy, and see how they are miserable places to live, to raise families, to grow up. Especially for intellectuals, geeks and nerds, because they are the ones that see the problems and are helpless to change it, and if they don't quickly learn camouflage themselves, they get murdered. And camouflage is dishonest, and so they live despising themselves. Imagining this dystopia is one way to motivate oneself to fight, and fight hard, to avoid this fate.

Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by jl6 on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @10:01AM (#36956061)
What about the faction that believes the ship is taking on water and thinks that’s a good thing?
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by pawelmurias on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @10:09AM (#36956140)
You mean the mermaids?
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by cosmojg on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @10:55AM (#36956763)
I'll stand by the Mermaid Party until the day I drown!
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by ryandrake on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @11:08AM (#36956958)
Exactly. You need a small-to-medium sized faction that runs around with drills, making more holes in the ship, either for the lulz or to irritate the side that believes we're taking on water.

Funny how, when I originally read OP's game, I thought he was talking about COVID response, but then realized he was probably talking about climate change. It's spooky how no matter what the crisis is, we seem to collectively respond to it in the same futile, guaranteed-to-fail way.

Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by heyjamesknight on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @10:16AM (#36956218)
You left out the part where the group that believes immediate action is the only way to prevent the ship from sinking, continually suggests immediate actions that will likely have no actual effect on the rate the ship is sinking, but will drastically affect the ability of the ship’s poorest people to meet their basic necessities.

The leaders of that group can even periodically fly their private helicopters off the ship, to meet and discuss how great they are for keeping the ship from sinking, even though the weight of the helicopters is helping it sink faster.

Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by gonzo41 on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @11:36AM (#36957415)
They also forgot the faction that is drilling holes in the ship to make money out of the sea water rushing in.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by hulitu on Wednesday August 02, 2023 @07:58AM (#36969638)
You forgot the part where some of the crew lobby the captain.
Re:Help the Library of Congress Create Games That Improve Pu... by crawsome on Wednesday August 02, 2023 @08:28AM (#36969939)
How is this related to civics?