The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014)

Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by wak90 on Monday July 03, 2023 @06:02PM (#36579399)

I don't think that's clear at all.

Working age adults work from their early 20s to their 60s and end of life care does not typically last that long.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by EA-3167 on Monday July 03, 2023 @06:26PM (#36579623)

EOL with dementia can linger for well over a decade, and it only gets more expensive as it goes on.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by Retric on Monday July 03, 2023 @06:31PM (#36579668)

Most people don’t experience dementia, and most of those who have it don’t need such extreme care. At this radio well under 5% of a steady state population would either have significant dementia or need to treat it.

The point of this Village is to minimize the cost of treating these people while maximizing their quality of life.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by DiggyJohnson on Monday July 03, 2023 @06:33PM (#36579683)

So it would need to scale out to 10s of thousands, no?

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by Retric on Monday July 03, 2023 @06:40PM (#36579752)

If everyone with dementia went to such a facility then we would need ~30,000 of them in the US. However, most people with dementia either don’t need such extreme care or have more severe medical issues, so the real number is probably a several hundred such facilities.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by bombcar on Monday July 03, 2023 @07:02PM (#36579933)

To compare, there are about 4,000 Walmarts in the USA. Each employs about 300 people.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by bookofjoe on Monday July 03, 2023 @07:29PM (#36580172)

>Most people don’t experience dementia

>In the first nationally representative study of cognitive impairment prevalence in more than 20 years, Columbia University researchers have found almost 10% of U.S. adults ages 65 and older have dementia, while another 22% have mild cognitive impairment.

https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/one-10-older-americans-h...

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/article-abstr...

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by Retric on Monday July 03, 2023 @09:44PM (#36581129)

Sure, though don’t forget 1/4th of American men don’t live past 65, and less than half make it to 79. Dying young isn’t necessarily preferable, but it does impact these statistics.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by rerdavies on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:29PM (#36580641)

Dementia is the between the 3rd and the 5th largest cause of death in first world countries, depending on the country, and how you count. Most people aren't currently experiencing dementia, but there's a very significant chance that you're going to end up with it eventually.

The actual question should not be what percentage of the population has it; the question should be what percentage of people will be suffering from dementia to the point that they need assisted living care when they die.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by rqtwteye on Monday July 03, 2023 @07:37PM (#36580244)

My father has dementia. I have some hope that robotics together with AI will make good caretakers for people with dementia. Interacting with him is not very complex. It’s basically just a repeat of the same conversations. Very labor intensive for humans but an AI would have way more patience.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by jacooper on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:13PM (#36580549)

Rather more like infinite patience.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by veggieburrito on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:17PM (#36580572)

Interesting to hear someone articulate this dynamic. I do not believe my father has dementia but there are similarities in regards to “repeat of the same conversations”.

Wish you and your family well.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by rerdavies on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:26PM (#36580620)

My mother has dementia. At present, conversations repeat on about 3 minute intervals. There is significant value to catching early signs of dementia.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by btilly on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @12:27AM (#36582232)

What is the value in catching early signs of dementia given that we have no useful treatments for it?

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by smetj on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @12:46AM (#36582348)

Getting prepared for what is to come for everyone involved?

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by lkuty on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @12:56AM (#36582401)

You might want to read Drop Acid by Perlmutter, stuff about sugar by Robert Lustig and maybe Fiber Fueled by Bulsiewicz. They give pointers to why Alzheimer might happen in the first place and how to avoid it. Those are life-long advices.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by rerdavies on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @03:17PM (#36605638)

There are no cures; but there are treatments that can delay onset, slow progression, and improve quality of life to varying extents depending on which disease.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by lostlogin on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:19PM (#36580587)

There was a great post here recently about automating some of this work.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35749579

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by zonkerdonker on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:21PM (#36580598)

Wow, yeah, I've never thought about this use case for AI. Honestly seems pretty ideal. A relative of mine afflicted with dementia recently passed, and while they still needed physical care, an AI "person" to bounce questions off of and talk to would have done wonders for them, and saved their carer a lot of stress and effort in a difficult time.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by ljlolel on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @02:03AM (#36582764)

Someone here built an amazing tool for this. They should commercialize it https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35749579

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by jtbayly on Monday July 03, 2023 @10:30PM (#36581478)

I can understand the impulse, but boy do I hope my family won’t turn me over to a computer in my dotage. I’d rather be loved than managed.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by wernercd on Monday July 03, 2023 @10:42PM (#36581559)

I would hope the solution would be both... humans augmented by computers so that the humans aren't overloaded and overly burdened.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by vanattab on Monday July 03, 2023 @10:45PM (#36581583)

Love is a burden no way around it. Some burdens are worth carrying however.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by nayaketo on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @12:29AM (#36582249)

We'll just need to create an AI that'll emulate love semi-perfectly.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by kergonath on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @03:17AM (#36583305)

Let us reimplement love in Rust from first principles to solve this inconvenience. Nothing can go wrong, it’ll be so disruptive and innovative.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by concordDance on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @03:30AM (#36583409)

Don't engage in negative sum transactions. The burden on families by a dementia patient is often higher than the benefit the dementia patient gets.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by rqtwteye on Monday July 03, 2023 @10:44PM (#36581579)

Caring for a dementia patient properly is all consuming for the caretakers. You don’t want to do this to your family. Getting help from a robot would be a win win for all.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by cm2012 on Monday July 03, 2023 @10:47PM (#36581599)

Seriously. My grandpa had dementia for 10 years. Pretty much everyone in my family doesn't want to inflict that on anyone else.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by cm2012 on Monday July 03, 2023 @10:46PM (#36581592)

Senile people are going to love the AIs of 10 years from now, I guarantee you. Once it has perfect audio control and responses, it's going to be like the perfect friend for an old person.

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by iJohnDoe on Monday July 03, 2023 @11:01PM (#36581672)

I always thought healthcare for people is not well suited for humans to do. Doctors, yes. Everything else, no. It’s such a demanding job for nurses and hospice care workers to deal with such terrible human situations. Sadly, it will probably be decades before robots could take over for nurses

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by atleastoptimal on Monday July 03, 2023 @09:08PM (#36580875)

What's a problem now that won't be around in 2070? Elderly and the disabled...

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by roughly on Monday July 03, 2023 @09:51PM (#36581183)

What's the patient to staff ratio at typical elder-care facilities?

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Re:The Dutch Village Where Everyone Has Dementia (2014) by ck2 on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @12:14AM (#36582162)

Covid "solves" long-term care sadly.

One worker insists on going to work anyway knowing they are sick because they need the paycheck and no health insurance or days off, and wipes the place out a few weeks later. Top that off with states that insist on allowing workers to not mask and it's almost on purpose.

Ironically covid may also cause a surge in dementia years from now so it's an ouroboros.

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