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Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by thrashh on Friday June 16, 2023 @03:54PM (#36362886)
The usual concern with regulation is not the big players.

It’s the smaller products and businesses that cease to exist because it’s too expensive to meet regulations. Bad regulation raises the cost of entry into the market and strengthens the big players like Apple.

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by waboremo on Friday June 16, 2023 @04:12PM (#36363147)
Not sure how much weight this really has in a market such as mobile phones in which additional external competitors are never going to become a reality.
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by wongarsu on Friday June 16, 2023 @06:08PM (#36364589)
OnePlus was a nobody when they launched the OnePlus One in 2014. They could have easily gone out of business.

And that's one that got big enough to remember them. Wikipedia lists 188 mobile phone manufacturers [1]. A lot of them very local (e.g. EvertekTunisie making phones for Tunisia and Morocco) or defunct; But even my local (German) retailer offers 35 brands. Big ones like Apple, Samsung and Xiaomi, budget brands like Oppo or ZTE, niche brands like CAT or Beafon. It's a crowded market that doesn't seem particularly hard to enter.

And judging by the spotty compatibility of LineageOS they don't all use the same hardware either.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mobile_phone_manufact...

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by oblio on Friday June 16, 2023 @05:47PM (#36364383)
Thankfully people here are asking for good regulation, once which states that at some point in the future every phone ever sold in market X needs to have its core software open sourced, so companies can plan ahead.
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by astrange on Friday June 16, 2023 @06:11PM (#36364617)
The EU isn't making good regulation, they don't have any tech companies and are just attempting to make it illegal to make anything in a fit of pique. The end result may be nobody selling phones there anymore.

Europe has an unhealthy culture of naturalistic hippiedom, so this is just the same thing that causes Germany to shut down nuclear power.

(If you think this one's good, try combining it with their six other giant laws you haven't heard of some of which conflict with this.)

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by stavros on Friday June 16, 2023 @07:02PM (#36365158)
I've been trying to find words to describe this take but I fail. It's as if someone thought "what's the most jingoistic thing I can say in support of the US and its anti-regulation free-for-all?".
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by astrange on Friday June 16, 2023 @07:16PM (#36365280)
The US isn't the only country with tech companies. You may have heard of China, Japan, or Korea.

And every country regulates cell phones in particular, since they use shared airwaves, have rare earth metals in them, sometimes have exploding batteries etc.

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by webmobdev on Friday June 16, 2023 @11:47PM (#36367071)
The end result may be nobody selling phones there anymore.

Really? Are you claiming that capitalists are so much of a fool that instead of making, say, half the profit they were making before in an unregulated market, they would readily prefer to make 0 profits? The reality is that if American BigTech exit the EU market, then some local or non-American competitor will step in to fill the vacuum. Or have you already forgotten that the European Nokia once dominated the mobile phone industry?

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by astrange on Saturday June 17, 2023 @05:48PM (#36375003)
Yes, I'm aware of how economic protectionism works.
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by webmobdev on Wednesday June 21, 2023 @05:08AM (#36416194)
Nokia failed because Microsoft sent a trojan horse to them. Nokia died because of Microsoft.
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by jacquesm on Saturday June 17, 2023 @01:18AM (#36367537)
This is a complete mis-characterization of the EU and it's ability to make laws.

As a legislative body it certainly isn't perfect but you are ascribing motivations and making statements about it that have zero connection with reality.

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by oblio on Saturday June 17, 2023 @02:58AM (#36367970)
This is some weird fantasy comment.

Please do link the other "six giant laws that conflict".

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by astrange on Saturday June 17, 2023 @05:47PM (#36374996)
GDPR, DMA, Cyber Resilience Act, Ecodesign Directive, the one in development about proactive CSAM scanning…
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by oblio on Saturday June 17, 2023 @07:25PM (#36375773)
To pick one, how does GDPR conflict with this battery regulation?
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by astrange on Saturday June 17, 2023 @07:38PM (#36375879)
"Some of which".

The people on here saying phone OSes should be open source and unlocked to make them last longer will find the ecodesign and security regulations actually encourage locking them down so you can't break them.

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by ImPostingOnHN on Saturday June 17, 2023 @11:52PM (#36377161)
is that a fact? I'm not sure.

could you specify the actual GDPR regulations in question which clearly conflict with these battery regulations (without any creative contrivance required on our part)?

or are you saying there isn't a conflict in that case (in which case, which ones do?) that part wasn't clear

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by astrange on Sunday June 18, 2023 @01:06AM (#36377501)
I did not say the GDPR conflicts with battery replacement, no.
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by ImPostingOnHN on Sunday June 18, 2023 @01:18AM (#36377548)
which one conflicts with this proposed replaceable battery legislation?
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by astrange on Sunday June 18, 2023 @03:48AM (#36378155)
> The people on here saying phone OSes should be open source and unlocked to make them last longer will find the ecodesign and security regulations actually encourage locking them down so you can't break them.
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by ImPostingOnHN on Monday June 19, 2023 @04:52PM (#36396306)
again: could you specify (meaning cite, obviously) the actual regulations in question which conflict with this battery legislation (you know, the topic)?

it seems like a creative but unlikely contrivance that there is an actual legal conflict there as you describe

you quoting yourself when it doesn't answer the question, without adding more context, leads me to believe that you don't think there is any actual legal conflict there, either

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by astrange on Monday June 19, 2023 @07:03PM (#36397526)
I did not say anything conflicted with replaceable battery legislation. I said other legislation conflicts with the things people who like this legislation want out of it. (Though maybe I misworded it.)
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by ImPostingOnHN on Monday June 19, 2023 @10:00PM (#36398845)
in that case, just cite those specific regulations which conflict, because again, the example seems contrived and unlikely (and FUD) without it
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by surgical_fire on Saturday June 17, 2023 @05:48AM (#36368740)
> The end result may be nobody selling phones there anymore

Yes, I firmly believe every every manufacturer would ignore an economic block full of developed countries and 450M people.

This is the sort of bad take that keeps me returning to HN. Some people here are incredibly dense.

On a side note, I wouldn't mind if Apple decided to not sell their toys around here anymore.

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by thrashh on Saturday June 17, 2023 @04:44AM (#36368445)
Who is asking for bad regulation?
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by oblio on Saturday June 17, 2023 @10:06AM (#36370272)
I don't know, you brought up the strawman.
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by rtsil on Friday June 16, 2023 @06:06PM (#36364565)
That argument is often used in bad faith/FUD by the big players themselves to halt any regulation attempts.

Regulations can be adapted to affect only the companies that reach X percentage in sales or in market share. The EU's Digital Markets Act does precisely this, for instance.

The regulators can let smaller players grow and thrive, and regulate them once they've exceeded a certain threshold.

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by thrashh on Saturday June 17, 2023 @04:41AM (#36368427)
Because it’s used by bad people doesn’t mean that it isn’t right.

Look at that GDPR popup. I and everyone I know just clicks “Accept All Cookies” now.

Sometimes regulators make something amazing, but sometimes it’s a load of turd. It’s hard to tell what’s going to turn out sometimes.

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by fsflover on Friday June 16, 2023 @07:14PM (#36365268)
There are already small businesses that do this: Purism and Pine64.
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by asddubs on Friday June 16, 2023 @07:40PM (#36365475)
releasing the firmware primarily would affect the chip makers, phone manufacturers generally do not write this code themselves.
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by rendaw on Friday June 16, 2023 @07:49PM (#36365542)
How would _this_ regulation raise the cost of entry? At worst they'd just have to release the source code for the firmware they wrote (putting source code on github takes maybe 5m).
Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by thrashh on Saturday June 17, 2023 @04:45AM (#36368454)
Source code probably involves libraries from other companies and covers patents owned by other people.

No one is building a product from complete scratch.

Re:European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batt... by the8472 on Saturday June 17, 2023 @06:54AM (#36369027)
Those suppliers would be subject to the same regulations when supplying to the big players. They should have all that stuff already available once it's in force.