News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by rubicon33 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:22PM (#36272529)
Maybe I'm just getting older but I feel like the quality of both music and film has seriously declined over the last 5-10 years. Maybe the good stuff is still out there but lost in a sea of average garbage that has surfaced to the top.

Something tells me AI isn't going to rescue us either. I just sampled a bunch of these generated tracks and they immediately remind me of the average, mediocre, soul-lacking content that most music and film is today.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by taude on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:42PM (#36272749)
This is why I paid extra for services like Tidal and Roon. Their music recommendations are just better than any AI-driven stuff. Need actually human experts to curate playlists and such. I feel like the alg-based stuff is just a race to the middle.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by brucethemoose2 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:30PM (#36272618)
A flood of garbage film/music has always existed, we just don't remember it because its uninteresting.

However, I think modern rec algorithms (like the Netflix home page) are recommending more mediocre stuff than the old system, and the streaming boom did produce an abnormal glut of junk.

Anyway I think AI is going to spawn a music remixing/game modding/tv extending renaissance. They perform much better when pointing them at a good source (as you can see with the melody conditioning samples, and other stuff like sd img2img and finetuned llms).

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by the_only_law on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:39PM (#36272719)
I won’t speak to music, as I listen to a lot of stuff, enough to know there is good stuff out there being made.

But for movies and TV? Where do I find the good stuff? It seems Hollywood is creatively bankrupt and just milking people off boring franchises and cheap nostalgia through crappy remakes and sequels. My eyes rolled to the back of my head when I saw an ad for a show called “how I met your father” on Hulu.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by berberous on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:49PM (#36272836)
For TV, hard to go wrong with an HBO series. Most recently, Succession was excellent.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by Cyph0n on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:51PM (#36272859)
Those “boring franchises” are what bankroll the passion projects, artsy festival bound movies, and experimental content.

As far as content goes, there has been a ton of excellent stuff just this year across movies, TV, and anime. One “organic” way to start is to look for recent recommendation threads on Reddit for a movie or show you really like.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by wholinator2 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:36PM (#36274224)
See, I've seen this stated many places but never explained. How exactly does the money made by derivative bullshit go into valuable, passionate, art projects and not either directly into pockets or into the next billion dollar derivative bullshit thing?

Generally, the bullshit costs way more to produce and market and advertise. And at least on paper, a significant amount of the money made is only recuperating costs for the 3 hours of incredibly CGI it took to make a 3rd 'ant man' or a 4th 'jurassic park'. The majority of actual indie art films cost ridiculously less than that because they're filming a movie, not a commercial.

Anyways, my opinions aside, are there any articles with cited money trails that prove that billion dollar blockbusters actually fund valuable art and not just executives yahts?

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by brucethemoose2 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:54PM (#36272900)
Use 3rd party discovery services.

Reelgood is a good one, sort by IMDB score (which is somehow still kinda working as a metric) or the reelgood score which is a popularity among enthusiasts kinda ranking. You will find tvs gems streaming services criminally and inexplicably never recommend.

But "old school" recommendations from TV /movie buffs (like the tvtropes community or various forums) are still a good source.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by johaugum on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:11PM (#36273149)
> But for movies and TV? Where do I find the good stuff?

There’s a trove of incredible foreign movies and TV shows out there. Scandinavian and Asian (Korean in particular) content has a really good hit to miss ratio for me.

For examples, check out international film festival nominations and winners.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by fancy_pantser on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:15PM (#36273202)
Having a good time woth Trakt for discovery and rating. It has a very active app/plugin/webhook ecosystem and I've gotten some great recommendations from it by scrobbling via Plex and following a few people with similar preferences on there.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by polytely on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:34PM (#36273461)
just follow writers and creators you like, note which actors have good taste, follow them from project to project.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by jimbokun on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:35PM (#36273468)
I don't know what you like, but "Prestige TV" seems to be where writers, directors, and actors wanting to do something other than another retread from some studio's IP backlog, end up.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by ssnistfajen on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:51PM (#36274385)
Indie films, international films, etc.

Mainstream entertainment has always converged to mediocrity.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by amanaplanacanal on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:35PM (#36272671)
It was a smaller flood though, when it required lots of money to record an album / make a movie. Gatekeepers kept most of it out. Now anybody can do it, so there is both a lot more chaff to sort through, and an outpouring of creativity.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by delusional on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:27PM (#36272587)
There's plenty of really good creative music. If you only watch Marvel and Top 20 hits you won't know it, but there's plenty of good stuff out there. I've really enjoyed the last couple of Bon Iver releases and my favorite artist, The Tallest Man On Earth, just released his new album Henry st. Containing some super personal tracks.

The music is fantastic if you just look a little.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by esskay on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:42PM (#36272743)
Theres loads of good music out there, it's just become extremely hard to find unless you're all in on scouring niche subreddits and soundcloud.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by chpatrick on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:37PM (#36272702)
There was always garbage, you just don't remember it.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by api on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:39PM (#36272721)
You really have to dig for good music these days. The record industry is a zombie at this point and no longer does the job of discovering good music. It just churns out utterly formulaic pop that might as well be the output of a music generator like this.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by rjh29 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:36PM (#36272684)
You sound old.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by satvikpendem on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:33PM (#36272641)
You are getting older. Every generation thinks the same, that media is getting worse, discounting the survivorship bias that occurs when they look back on their favorite music and discarding all of the bad music that was present back then.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by SeanLuke on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:35PM (#36272676)
This is no doubt true, but there are a number of studies which suggest that, at least in the case of music, things really have gotten rather worse over the last two decades, thanks to corporatization and consolidation of the production model.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by ddmichael on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:39PM (#36272724)
That's very interesting, any sources?
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by reducesuffering on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:05PM (#36273052)
There are more bedroom indie music producers than ever. EDM and "rap" are better than ever with many many good artists to choose from. One of the biggest breakout rap artist right now was just a random 20 year old working with other random bedroom producers just a couple years ago.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by djur on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:06PM (#36273061)
The research on this topic that I'm aware of fails to account for the fact that the top 40/100 lists are less representative of what people are actually listening to than they used to be. If Drake can drop an album and have every song on it chart on the Hot 100 for a week or two, that's going to influence the analysis. That simply wasn't possible before music downloads/streaming. You can see the impact on the chart records -- artists from the past decade dominate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_Hot_100_char...

ETA: And "worse" in these studies tends to be defined in terms of measurable qualities where contemporary pop music most differs from "classical" music.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:23PM (#36273337)
I don't understand this view. Heavily commercialised music has almost never been all that great anyway. Except very occasionally. Most of it is LCD garbage. Maybe the garbage has become even more garbage, I don't know. But why judge an art form by the boring average.

There's so much great new music being made every year, new genres and ideas, etc. Film music seems better than ever recently. Especially for TV series. Lots of new styles emerging there too, see Mac Quayle for instance.

The really good, modern music was almost always on the fringes, and there's more of it now than ever before.

There might also be more garbage, but there's no need to listen to it.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by sebzim4500 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:36PM (#36273485)
I'm sure you can come up with metrics by which any given period of music was 'worse' than the one before.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by polytely on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:55PM (#36273718)
This is only if you listen to the most mainstream, general audience top 40 pop content-sludge.

There is an overwhelming amount of good music out there. Pick an album top 50 list from 2022, for example fantano's, or pitchfork, check out bandcamp's staff picks, listen to other musicians that are on the same label as your favourite band, keep an eye on things like NPR Tiny Desk, KEXP, la blogothèque on YouTube.

Just start listening. You are almost guaranteed to stumble upon something you like. It won't come to you algorithmically but the effort required is really low.

My favourite new album I discovered last year was Immanuel Wilkin's The 7th Hand [1], I stumbled upon it by going through a top 20 jazz albums of 2022 list to see if I had missed anything, and it immediately jumped out at me as being exactly the shit I'm into.

1: https://youtube.com/watch?v=141y8ikOsyE

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by mensetmanusman on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:56PM (#36272920)
Society is more unhealthy, people are dying sooner, and there are more broken families than decades ago. So we might be right for once!
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by thomashop on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:09PM (#36273109)
Can you provide some sources? Last time I looked into statistics on these topics I found the opposite to be true.

The brothers Rosling have a nice talk about how all the big stats are improving globally (gender equality, education, health, extreme poverty, life expectation)

https://youtu.be/Sm5xF-UYgdg

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by abraae on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:05PM (#36273855)
All the stats that we self-interested humans care about anyway.

The stats on the planet we live in are bad and getting worse. There is 30% more carbon dioxide in the air now than when I was born.

All the improvements in gender equality mean nothing compared to that and the trend behind it.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by thomashop on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:56PM (#36274435)
The parent I responded to was not talking about climate change. Sure that's a whole different debate
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by satvikpendem on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:01PM (#36272991)
Sources on these? Society has been far better than 100 years ago. And broken families? Or people marrying early due to societal pressure and not being able to divorce back then (whether legally or societally), who are now finally able to do so. The divorce rate is actually going down simply because people are marrying when they want to, not when society pressures them to.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by zirgs on Sunday June 11, 2023 @12:47PM (#36282981)
In the 1950s there was no metal, chiptunes, EDM and other stuff like that. We had all that by the 80s and 90s. But what can we make now that we could not have made 20-30 years ago? Seems like that we've reached "the end of history" in music. I haven't seen anything new appearing.

Computers can already generate every possible waveform that can be heard by human ears. There's nowhere else to go. Anything above 16kHz is useless and can't be heard anyway.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by satvikpendem on Sunday June 11, 2023 @02:03PM (#36283858)
Just because we can generate any waveform doesn't make music "worse."
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by zirgs on Sunday June 11, 2023 @02:12PM (#36283970)
I'm not saying that music is worse. I'm saying that we have reached the "end of history" and there will be no more new radical changes like when genres like rock, metal and edm appeared.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by satvikpendem on Sunday June 11, 2023 @02:17PM (#36284046)
That seems like a different point than the one I made that you replied to, so sorry for the confusion.

I'm not too sure about end of history, there might well be other genres and styles popping up. Just because we always had the ability to paint on a canvas doesn't mean pointillism or cubism didn't emerge. Just because we can put any letters on a page doesn't mean new genres of fiction didn't emerge. The fact that we can generate any waveform is analogous to these (ie, having complete control over a medium) and doesn't indicate anything about what might emerge in the future.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by zirgs on Sunday June 11, 2023 @03:34PM (#36284803)
We've had that capability for at least 3 decades and nothing completely new has appeared since then. Something completely new like rock, metal or edm. You could not have made those during the 30s - the necessary technology hadn't been invented yet.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by sillysaurusx on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:53PM (#36272879)
Counterexample: https://on.soundcloud.com/d6rX9goHHrSH3sQY9

I agree with you. When gwern investigated AI folk music in 2019, I realized it could generate a wonderful variety of music, full of soul. Be sure to listen to several tracks before making up your mind. My favorite is “crossing the channel”, since I think GPT made a mistake at the beginning, and then generated the most reasonable sounding not-mistake, which turned out to sound so cool.

My goal was strong, memorable melodies. Star Wars, not Marvel. GPT can come surprisingly close, if the input data format is right. Unfortunately I don’t think anyone except gwern has noticed that the input format is crucial: https://gwern.net/gpt-2-music

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by pests on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:37PM (#36273496)
Where in your gwern link is the input format being crucial discussed? I couldn't find it.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by sillysaurusx on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:01PM (#36273794)
I don’t know if gwern realized how powerful his model was. His examples are underwhelming, because you have to prompt it in a certain way to get it to generate chords. He was showing me samples and they were neat, but boring.

One day he posted something that sounded pretty amazing, and I was blown away. “More like that, please.” It had chords in it.

He didn’t pursue it past that. I did. So it’s possible that no one is aware of how crucial the input format actually is to the success of the music that I was able to produce.

(And “produce” is a fair description here — choosing the instruments was really important, and the model didn’t do it. It wasn’t as easy as press a button. It felt like I was suddenly a 15x music producer, since I made all those tracks in one night. Such is the power of ML.)

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by wholinator2 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:48PM (#36274350)
Do you have a write up anywhere with samples? I'd love to hear some of the better examples you have. I agree that most of what's out there is underwhelming
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by sillysaurusx on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:53PM (#36274399)
All of them are here: https://on.soundcloud.com/d6rX9goHHrSH3sQY9

Unfortunately I didn’t do a writeup (which gwern has given me a hard time about over the years, and he’s quite right!), so I have nothing to offer beyond those songs as a finished product. Maybe one day I’ll try to resurrect it for devs.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by gilmore606 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @09:36PM (#36277095)
This is the best generated music I've ever heard. Are you blogging about your project? Where can I read more about your methods?
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by sillysaurusx on Saturday June 10, 2023 @09:42PM (#36277135)
Sadly no, and nowhere. And with my primary focus being gamedev for the foreseeable future, the only way I see it being resurrected is if I need some generated music. That’s fairly low on the priority list for now, but it might preempt other things. https://github.com/shawwn/noh

To be immodest for a moment, my work serves as an example that it’s possible to do it, and better than anyone else, long before they figure out how. Many examples of this pop up throughout history, and I am gratified to be a small but real one.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by mensetmanusman on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:54PM (#36272894)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ6Mzvh3XCc

This is a great song for contemplating loss of a loved one.

I'm not sure AI music will ever reach these heights because it will have trouble understanding death.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by InCityDreams on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:08PM (#36273096)
You're getting older. I'm 62 and moving air always inspires me. The shit my children listen to annoys me as much as the shit I listened to that annoyed my parents.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by anlaw on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:10PM (#36273136)
It’s not just you; pop music compositions with key changes that add complexity have all but vanished since the early 00s: https://flowingdata.com/2022/11/22/decline-of-key-changes-in...

Automation tools and fine grained computed metrics have rounded off the edges of emotional experiences. See Bobby Kotick about taking the fun out of games: https://www.escapistmagazine.com/bobby-kotick-wants-to-take-...

Him saying that is around the time the music compositions start becoming similar. The mentality was not constrained to games.

Nothing is allowed to be it’s own thing anymore. It has to be hypernormalized to have enough reach a billionaire CEO can profit from.

MBA-ification of reality.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by djur on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:22PM (#36273330)
I disagree that key changes in popular music are a great measure of complexity. For many years a key change near the end of the song was an easy way to give the sense of a climax. The article your link is based on gives a good summary of it:

> The act of shifting a song’s key up either a half step or a whole step (i.e. one or two notes on the keyboard) near the end of the song, was the most popular key change for decades. In fact, 52 percent of key changes found in number one hits between 1958 and 1990 employ this change. You can hear it on “My Girl,” “I Wanna Dance With Somebody,” and “Livin’ on a Prayer,” among many others.

To me, this just reflects one set of songwriters' cliches being replaced by another. Not necessarily better or worse.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by wholinator2 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:29PM (#36274144)
While i do agree generally about key changes, i think the point is that it's just an example of something that sounds _interesting_. It's not just key changes, but all the little chances that an actual artist takes during creation, the things that sound good to some and bad to others are exactly what makes art, art. The change being witnessed isn't the loss of key changes, but the loss of everything that sounds different or interesting, in favor of a sound that is generally palatable to everyone precisely because it does not contain anything interesting.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by ryandrake on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:55PM (#36274429)
How about time signature changes, then? Not too many popular songs experiment much anymore. What was the last popular hit with a really odd meter (or various meters)? I know, not everyone can be Rush, but it’s pretty vanilla today.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by anlaw on Saturday June 10, 2023 @05:35PM (#36275390)
I never said they were a great measure. Another tool in the toolkit. Or it was anyway.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by kevinventullo on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:19PM (#36273281)
If MBA’s played any significant role in the development of Zelda:TOTK, I might have to change my opinion about them.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by rubicon33 on Saturday June 10, 2023 @04:12PM (#36274600)
Thats honestly what it feels like. It feels like all music and film has regressed toward some boring mean. There's not enough range, emotion, and difference to find tracks that really stand out from the crowd.

Music especially just feels flat. Maybe that's just the style now, and I'm old and can't appreciate it.

Honestly, gaming is in a similar rut although not quite as bad thanks to VR.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by skrebbel on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:12PM (#36273153)
Sounds to me like you've simply stopped trying.

When I was 20 I was a music snob into Aphex Twin and weird IDM. I thought all pop at the time was crap, like you seem to. But then I heard, I mean like really heard, "Bye Bye Bye" by *NSYNC and seriously that is a good song!

I'm 40 now and I think it got way better even since then. Pop is so varied now! I really don't think music as quirky and weird as, say, Billie Eilish would've made it to the top of the charts in the 90s. I'd say that music like hers (and many top charting artists of her generation) is a testament to how broad and compelling pop music has become.

My generation thought their parents music was shit, my parents' generation thought their parents' music was shit, and so on, all the way until at least the invention of Jazz. But the average Gen-Z'er thinks all the music is great! They invent new genres for every song, they wear Metallica t-shirts in 2023, and they mix 80s disco with 00's Brit rock like it's just what people do.

And don't forget there's an endless long tail of music out there. There are so many good musicians and plenty of them have a sufficiently fancy label deal to be on Spotify and the likes. And otherwise they're still on Soundcloud, Bandcamp and YouTube. It's worth a deep dive!

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by bluefishinit on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:58PM (#36273757)
> hey invent new genres for every song, they wear Metallica t-shirts in 2023, and they mix 80s disco with 00's Brit rock like it's just what people do.

If this appeals to you, it's worth checking out Japanese music from the Showa era to present. They've long mixed styles in a way other music markets have not. You can hear city pop songs from the 80s with metal guitar solos, jazz progressions a samba beat and synths, all in the same song.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by te_chris on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:35PM (#36274213)
Recently discovered city pop thanks to an NTS special. So dope
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by skrebbel on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:00PM (#36273781)
Hey wow cool! Got any representative sample to recommend?
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by bluefishinit on Saturday June 10, 2023 @09:28PM (#36277041)
I like Mari Hamada, Meiko Nakahara, Akina Nakamori, Misato Watanabe, Seiko Matsuda, Saki Kubota, Yoko Oginome and definitely check out Juicy Fruits!
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by jimbokun on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:33PM (#36273441)
I haven't been able to find it in years, but I remember an Onion headline saying "Music and movies were best when you, the reader, were 12 years old."
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by surfingdino on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:05PM (#36273857)
The quality of what gets promoted and tops the charts has declined, but there is a lot of good music produced today.
Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by visarga on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:37PM (#36274229)
> remind me of the average, mediocre, soul-lacking content

This model is just the equivalent of GPT-2 for music. It's not the GPT-4 yet. Music is trailing a few years from language. Used to be that language was about 5 years behind vision. Now language is the top.

Re:Meta releases New SOTA Text to Music generator better tha... by ssnistfajen on Saturday June 10, 2023 @03:50PM (#36274375)
Good music/films that survived through decades or centuries of history are a prime example of survivorship bias.

It has been easier than ever for any individual to create content of any type, and there will always be gems.

AI isn't meant to "rescue" you from this problem, at least not in the present stage. You are looking for a mission that was never claimed.