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Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by 6DM on Friday June 02, 2023 @10:14AM (#36165365)
I think the use case for this would be ultra thin laptops, this could also be a quiet alternative to the current fans loudly spinning up.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by idontwantthis on Friday June 02, 2023 @10:28AM (#36165557)
Once this is affordable and proven reliable, why would laptops that are not thin and light still exist?
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by bick_nyers on Friday June 02, 2023 @10:33AM (#36165632)
Structural integrity?
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by tempodox on Friday June 02, 2023 @10:48AM (#36165846)
But only until we can crumple up our electronics like a piece of cloth.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by gambiting on Friday June 02, 2023 @10:53AM (#36165936)
I have a work laptop with a 12850HX + 3080Ti and 128GB of ram for work - even if you remove all the cooling from it, all the components still take a huge amount of space inside. The 128GB CAMM module for ram alone is larger than the entire motherboard in macbooks. Also the cooling would need to be able to deal with ~200W of heat, even solid state cooling would be quite large for such an amount of heat.

https://imgur.com/a/L24ATjp

that green module on the right is just ram. And Dell is trying to make this the future standard for ram modules in laptops. (ignore the dust on fans, I was in the middle of cleaning it).

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by kylixz on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:00AM (#36166058)
What model Dell? Satisfied? We’ve tried some other Linux friendly brands and the quality control has been less than stellar.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by gambiting on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:54AM (#36166800)
Yeah it's a Dell Precision 7670 - not had any problems with it, and it's an absolute beast performance wise.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by wil421 on Friday June 02, 2023 @10:18AM (#36165422)
It’s the reason I love my M1 air so much. No fan and barely any heat.

My company issued HP zbook for Software Engineers is very loud and pushes lots of heat out. I would love a quieter alternative for large Windows laptops.

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by CharlesW on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:06AM (#36166151)
FWIW, Windows on Parallels is great on my M1 Air.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by rimunroe on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:14AM (#36166259)
I'm looking forward to using one of those. My mom's old Dell laptop died and she finally made the switch to the new MacBook Air. It seems fantastic.

I had the 2015 MacBook. It was an oddball model which afaik never got a refresh: it didn't have any active cooling, had a 12" screen, a single USB-C port and a headphone jack, and was the and the first version of the terrible butterfly keyboard (which had to get replaced three times over its life!). I got it through my company for half price after an executive had gotten it for travel but couldn't get adapters to reliably work for presentations. The main things I remember about it (other than the terrible keyboard) were that it was delightfully portable and quiet, and that I had to consider the weather when I was deciding what to do. I haven't lived in a place with air conditioning in years, and in the summers I'd sometimes have to stop my chronic multitasking and decide if I wanted to browse/run other programs, or stream videos. On the rare occasions I'd do some programming and needed to compile something, I'd open the laptop halfway and put it on its side with a fan pointed at the back. I also put it on an ice pack on more than one occasion. I've always been surprised that condensation didn't kill it.

The new Airs seems like they solidly solve all of my complaints with the 2015 MacBook, which means I might finally have found a computer which can make me as happy as my Fujitsu LifeBook P1510D did. My only quibble might be that it's still a smidge larger than what I'd like, but it's a minor quibble.

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by kitsunesoba on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:21AM (#36166375)
Yeah, reducing heat output and fan noise should be more of a goal for mainstream PC vendors. My ThinkPad X1 Nano is a lovely machine… super lightweight, tiny, solidly built, decent keyboard and screen, but it starts getting hot and spins up its fan with the slightest hint of work. I have to keep its CPU throttled by putting it in power saver mode to keep its fan off (most of the time), which brings major performance tradeoffs.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by Enginerrrd on Friday June 02, 2023 @10:44AM (#36165784)
As someone that can hear a lot of "ultrasonic" frequencies, I would not assume it would be quiet. Those ultrasonic occupancy sensors are TERRIBLE. Your "quiet" laptop might be worse since the sound would be continuous instead of loud bursts.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by noizz on Friday June 02, 2023 @10:58AM (#36166012)
You are correct. LTT's coverage mentions that while it's not loud, it's a bit unpleasant due to high frequencies. Although things might get tweaked with case design probably. Regardless, I am super excited about this tech.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by moffkalast on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:18AM (#36166320)
After decades of jokes about laptops "lifting off" when under load they will finally sound like a proper jet airplane.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by rimunroe on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:45AM (#36166706)
I really wonder about what the impact of having a lot of these devices in a house with animals which can hear higher frequency ranges would be. Most (all?) rodents, cats, and--to a lesser extent--dogs all hear well into the ultrasonic range. I don't know if this is the sort of ambient noise that they'd habituate to easily or if it would cause constant stress.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by bitwize on Friday June 02, 2023 @10:45AM (#36165797)
I still prefer the Apple approach: design a CPU so powerful and efficient, it can handle desktop workloads and larger and not need active cooling at all.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by dimmke on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:04AM (#36166115)
I was never into "PC Building", but had a friend who was and a few years ago they helped me build out a "Small form factor" PC, using this case: https://imgur.com/a/7xLBiC3

The case was designed to have two columns, and one side was dedicated to fitting a full sized graphics card. The other column was the rest of the computer.

The graphics card had its own fan system, but I also needed a fan glued to the CPU and then an extra one at the bottom to help spit out exhaust. The thing ran so hot, and the cords ended up just jammed into the case where they fit.

I had no experience with building PCs and was amazed I could fit a 2TB Hard drive in a tiny little stick on the motherboard, whereas X amount of years before, I would have had to install a spinning disk, much bigger. Such a huge leap forward.

The main reason I wanted this form factor was because the perceived elegance of it appealed to me. But it became clear to me through the process that "small form factor" for enthusiasts is usually more about the challenge of building in a tight space. The thing is super loud with the fans and runs super hot when using it for gaming, even with a 1080ti card.

That's one of the reasons Apple's progress with CPUs is so great to me. I don't want the entire industry to move to SoC style where everything is soldered to the motherboard, but the more efficient you can make the rest of the computer, the better cooling system you can design. Just like the M.2 form factor for SSDs was a huge leap. But even if you can't eliminate the need for active cooling, something like this would make things a lot better. I think you'd still have to design around where the exhaust blows out though.

I think it'd be better to have the ARM increase in efficiency and then maybe combine it with something like this for extra powerful models, the way graphics cards are sold with the fans attached.

Someday I'd like to be able to upgrade the build and optimize it. The dream would be to not have any fans, but some other form of active cooling, and for the machine to be basically silent, while packing a 3090+ tier graphics card.

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by Tade0 on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:16AM (#36166282)
I think it's less Apple and more TSMC.

Through overzealous cleaning I broke the fans on my Ryzen 4800HS laptop but with the right fan-control software even that TSMC 7nm CPU operated largely fanless(they only spooled up above 80°C, which was rare) until replacements came in the mail.

The M1 in the Air is throttled to roughly half the TDP of other devices with the same chip, so it's not like you're getting all the performance it can offer.

That being said Apple's design is somewhat faster than competition using the same lithography.

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by kitsunesoba on Friday June 02, 2023 @04:18PM (#36170193)
> The M1 in the Air is throttled to roughly half the TDP of other devices with the same chip, so it's not like you're getting all the performance it can offer.

Throttling only kicks in on the M1 Air when the CPU has been running full tilt for ~10m. Outside of that it performs identically the the regular M1 in a Mac Mini, iMac, or 13" MBP.

Even a lot of heavy users rarely keep the CPU pegged for that long. Most workloads are instead short and bursty. There's stuff like compiling Chromium that'll do it, but people who do that regularly should probably be looking at something like a 14" M1/M2 Pro MBP instead if portability is a priority.

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by jayd16 on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:45AM (#36166711)
The higher performing skus are still actively cooled.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by gamblor956 on Friday June 02, 2023 @02:00PM (#36168579)
But Apple's Mx chips can't handle desktop workloads without active cooling, and are demonstrably worse at workloads that are demanding enough to require active cooling.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by Cloudef on Saturday June 03, 2023 @12:47AM (#36173802)
It's funny because I actually had to buy app called "Macs fan control" just to get the M1 Pro's fans to spin up. While I also prefer quiet laptop, if I do some heavy tasks, I want it to actually spin up instead of making the case hot. The app is nice because if you pay, you can have quick presets for different fan behaviors and temperature curves. Other than that I usually SSH to a Ryzen workstation to run heavy workloads, but it's useful when that option is not available or not needed.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by JamesAdir on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:09AM (#36166193)
Why do we need thinner laptops? You can hardly work on any of the current models today, which their almost zero height keys. We need better keyboards and not thinner laptops.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by packetlost on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:30AM (#36166487)
Hard disagree. Shorter key travel is a matter of preference. I quite like the ultra-short-travel of my laptops even though I have half a dozen mechanical keyboards that I use on my desktops. It would be nice to have more options, but I'd take a thin and light over a chunky laptop any day.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by bryanlarsen on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:29AM (#36166475)
Weight is a much more useful metric than height for a laptop.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by dietr1ch on Friday June 02, 2023 @12:01PM (#36166883)
I'd like if we got to the point where the computer was on the back of the monitor so it'd be easier to cool, and then the bottom would be dedicated to peripherals, including way better keyboards.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by Zanni on Friday June 02, 2023 @03:44PM (#36169889)
We're already there with tablets (Surface, iPad) with attached keyboards. Personally, I prefer the bulk and weight of the device to be on the table, not propped up, but some folks love this configuration.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by dietr1ch on Saturday June 03, 2023 @06:54PM (#36181296)
A good keyboard, large battery and connectors should weight enough to balance it
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by MiddleEndian on Friday June 02, 2023 @05:31PM (#36171019)
The Surface Book 2 sort of did this, most of the computer was behind the screen, the base only had a keyboard, more batteries, and a GPU (which could be disabled so you could detach the screen).

It got really hot really fast if you did any graphics/video work on it, even more than regular laptops do.

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by stronglikedan on Friday June 02, 2023 @12:39PM (#36167398)
If you can make the frame thinner under the keyboard area by moving some computing components around to areas that are normally housing cooling components, then you can have a longer travel distance for the keys. So, not necessarily a thinner laptop, but thinner where it would count.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by _a_a_a_ on Friday June 02, 2023 @01:28PM (#36168154)
"Talk about thin laptops long enough and people will start to buy into it" (A variation on Goebbels' big lie)

I reckon you bought into it.

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by JadeNB on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:46PM (#36171822)
> "Talk about thin laptops long enough and people will start to buy into it" (A variation on Goebbels' big lie)

I think that analogizing persistent marketing propaganda to genocidal fascist propaganda is going a bit far.

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by _a_a_a_ on Friday June 02, 2023 @07:24PM (#36172107)
You realise I was not making a point about fascism and mass murder but about dishonest ways to change people's minds – you got that, right? You understood, yes? I was talking about computer hardware not death camps, yes? You didn't carefully misunderstand the point I was making at all, did you?
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by RockRobotRock on Friday June 02, 2023 @07:18PM (#36172065)
Are you fucking serious dude? lmao
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by topikk on Friday June 02, 2023 @02:02PM (#36168607)
> You can hardly work on any of the current models today

Tell that to the millions of people who work on them daily without issue.

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by znpy on Friday June 02, 2023 @04:42PM (#36170501)
i have mixed feelings about thin&light laptops... i thought i wouldn't mind a bit more weight, but after getting a 14" macbook pro for work i appreciated my personal x270 (and my old T440) so much more.

the macbook pro is crazy heavy.

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by ksec on Friday June 02, 2023 @09:44PM (#36172903)
It is an unfortunate trend brought by Apple with no key travel. Part of the reason why I am still sticking to my MacBook Pro 2015.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by Zemtomo on Sunday June 04, 2023 @07:44AM (#36184841)
Never heard this complain before

Definitely a new one for me and an easy 'what? It works really well...'

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by gizmo on Friday June 02, 2023 @02:19PM (#36168829)
No, the primary use is in dusty industrial environments where regular fans get clogged up.

Noise currently is worse than regular fans because it's higher pitched.

Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by corysama on Friday June 02, 2023 @02:26PM (#36168901)
Interesting point from the Linus Tech Tips video: A lot of the thermal throttling in laptops is based on user comfort (don't burn the user) rather than CPU limits. He had a demo of a laptop CPU running faster and hotter with this system because the body of the laptop was the focus of the cooling.
Re:We’ve just seen solid state active cooling working on a M... by seltzered_ on Friday June 02, 2023 @03:13PM (#36169490)
I was actually thinking high-end tablet PCs (like the Asus ROG Flow Z13, Microsoft surface) where they have thermal constraints due to having both a medium-TDP CPU (and GPU) AND a large display to backlight.

Tablet setups also can facilitate better keyboards and an eye-level screen, as shown by members in https://reddit.com/r/ergomobilecomputers