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Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by spamizbad on Thursday April 27, 2023 @10:51AM (#35729020)
Having worked in this industry for two decades (and a Dropbox user since its public launch) the "product strategy" of most of these companies is close to just spitballing. If you want a recent example you can look at Facebook lighting almost $40 billion with their Metaverse product.

To add to that, Product leadership at technology companies has evolved to be much less technical, so they aren't going to have any deep insight about AI that, say, a software engineer who has worked in that field might have.

But hey, if in a few years Dropbox launches a popular AI-based feature I'll gladly eat my words because I'll probably be using it. They could benefit from enhancing their search functionality, for example -- but that's just a nice-to-have feature, not something revolutionary.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by hn_throwaway_99 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @11:31AM (#35729636)
I'll add my 2c because I'm getting a little annoyed that folks who only have familiarity with Dropbox's consumer offering seem to think they have any idea what they're talking about.

In an enterprise, it can be extremely difficult to ensure your permissions are what you want them to be: that people can share things easily with the right groups, but also that sensitive data is not inadvertently exposed. Dropbox in particular excels at sharing documents with others outside your company, but that is also where there is obviously the most risk.

Currently, I find Dropbox's enterprise permissions management tools pretty difficult to use. There are loads of options and it's too easy to get something "wrong" if you inadvertently miss checking the right checkbox. It's not hard for me to see how AI tools could help improve this situation, and especially to provide additional capabilities in the DLP (data loss prevention) space that would make it easier to detect misconfigured access.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by qsort on Thursday April 27, 2023 @11:36AM (#35729693)
> There are loads of options and it's too easy to get something "wrong" if you inadvertently miss checking the right checkbox.

This seems the exact opposite of what the current crop of AI is good at.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by caskstrength on Thursday April 27, 2023 @11:59AM (#35730032)
> This seems the exact opposite of what the current crop of AI is good at.

Yeah, last thing I want when trying to share a file with people outside of my organization is some opaque kafkaesque chatgpt-wannabe model telling me "I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that".

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by jonny_eh on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:03PM (#35730120)
"I'm 99% certain that you're a poodle, and poodles are not allowed to share that document. Is there anything else I can help you with today?"
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by hn_throwaway_99 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:31PM (#35730599)
The AI doesn't need to be the end-all-be-all of defining permissions. But it's not hard to imagine a couple of areas where AI could help:

1. Letting users enter desired permissions setting in a natural language, and then the AI recommending checkbox settings, and, importantly, explaining these settings.

2. Useful as a monitoring/alerting system for DLP. Most DLP systems already use some sort of machine learning for identifying sensitive docs.

3. Easily running "test scenarios" to show to admins who can and can't get access to particular docs.

There is a huge chasm between "AI owns all my permission settings" to "AI can make it easier and more robust for me to understand what my permission settings should be."

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by oxfordmale on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:09PM (#35736424)
There is a reason permissions are not defined in natural language. Language is imprecise and that is why security is so hard to get right
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by spamizbad on Thursday April 27, 2023 @11:53AM (#35729941)
How does AI tooling help with that? "The AI tool said I could grant this user access this way" is not something that would pass compliance.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by lostlogin on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:04PM (#35730143)
I wonder what the compliance process would think of the telemetry that is adding stuff back to Dropbox and can’t be turned off.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35724939#35726399

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by muttled on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:17PM (#35730376)
You are exactly right. And to address the concerns about errors made by the machine, we are not looking in my organization to have the machine automatically make decisions on things like access. It would ideally warn us when we've likely done or are about to do something wrong. An auditing tool at least.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by jgalt212 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @01:03PM (#35731172)
> Dropbox in particular excels at sharing documents with others outside your company, but that is also where there is obviously the most risk.

> Currently, I find Dropbox's enterprise permissions management tools pretty difficult to use.

These two sentences were one after the other. So which way is it?

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by occamrazor on Thursday April 27, 2023 @05:39PM (#35734971)
Dropbox can be at the same time the best solution and nevertheless hard to use, if the other solutions are less powerful or more confusing.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by jimbokun on Thursday April 27, 2023 @01:35PM (#35731699)
Needing strong AI to manage permissions on a file sharing program sounds like something out of Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. Like the sentient AI stuck operating an elevator.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by plasticsoprano on Thursday April 27, 2023 @02:01PM (#35732134)
Have you used Box? Dropbox offers editor and view levels with some additional options to add a password, set an expiration, download or not while Box is over here with 7 different sharing levels. I've managed Box environments and I've managed Dropbox ones and the amount of data leakage coming out of the Box environments was not only more often but much grander on scale because people kept picking the wrong level of access.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by oxfordmale on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:07PM (#35736421)
There are many good use cases for AI, however, permissions is not one of them. The current gen AI makes things up and would likely give a member of the cleaning staff super admin to allow them to clean the data.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by hn_throwaway_99 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @10:14PM (#35736814)
People aren't arguing that AI alone makes all the permissions decisions. It's not hard to see a big leap from DLP solutions, which currently already make copious use of machine learning, to permissions auditing, monitoring and recommendations in the first place.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by Aeolun on Thursday April 27, 2023 @11:26AM (#35729557)
> look at Facebook lighting almost $40 billion with their Metaverse product

That’s only because it failed (and the jury is still out on that). If it works they’ll conquer an entirely new market right from the start.

Certainly a much better long term strategy than hoping they can keep up their advertising revenue.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by rchaud on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:02PM (#35730093)
It won't! That's the most galling aspect of this gigantic waste of money. That you're calling it a "new market" is precisely the problem --- when you've sunk this many billions into something, you can't wait that long before needing to make that money back.

The "metaverse" is ironically set up to be Facebook's walled garden. It has no other use, it cannot be repurposed or made modular in any way. It's not a standalone product that say, integrates with Google Ads, something that they could try to offload to some other company.

It's Zuck's baby, and in the middle of slow and protracted crib death.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by nemothekid on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:13PM (#35730305)
>when you've sunk this many billions into something, you can't wait that long before needing to make that money back.

The last 15 years of tech says otherwise. Tesla is the most obvious counterpoint to this example. I don't think the Metaverse is useful, but my issue with Facebook isn't that he poured 30B into what was essentially R&D.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by rchaud on Thursday April 27, 2023 @01:59PM (#35732105)
Tesla is an automotive company whose finances and stock valuation work on very different principles compared to an ad company like Facebook.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by somsak2 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @05:43PM (#35735014)
if it were actually valued as an automotive company, it wouldn't have anywhere close to its current valuation
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by Aeolun on Thursday April 27, 2023 @07:12PM (#35735685)
Or Amazon.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by oblio on Saturday April 29, 2023 @07:42AM (#35752015)
The metaverse is their shot at the next OS (or platform, but that's too vague). He who controls the OS controls everything (Apple for their specific desktops, Microsoft for every other desktop and laptop, Apple and Google for mobile, Google for the web - yes, the web is for all intents and purposes another platform/OS).

Facebook has their own platform but it's built on top of others so it can be choked off. Facebook wants its own OS.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by Spivak on Thursday April 27, 2023 @11:00AM (#35729158)
I think Dropbox is, like a lot of companies right now, is struggling to find new revenue with new features added to their existing product lines and is divesting themselves of new work on mature products to focus on new markets. AI just being something exciting in general that has everyone hyped.

I would have thought HN would celebrate a company that's publicly decided to stop fucking with the Wi-Fi.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by rexreed on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:01PM (#35730088)
You had me until that last sentence. I have no idea what you're referring to with Wi-Fi.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by Spivak on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:08PM (#35730226)
The fact that Dropbox likely is going to stop constantly messing with their core offerings.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by birdyrooster on Thursday April 27, 2023 @11:49AM (#35729899)
Seriously it’s embarrassing how leadership in many companies has ZERO vision for AI right now. Too focused on buying houses, drinking wine and riding horses. I think these people need to retire already.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by Sohcahtoa82 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:20PM (#35730406)
Snark aside, this is something that's always kind of baffled me.

If I built a company and eventually found myself in extremely high value (ie, 9 figures), I'd be looking to retire ASAP. That would be it. I won capitalism. Time to spend the rest of my life on Maui sipping Mai-Tais on the beach.

Why anybody would want to continue to work when they already have enough wealth to live an extremely lavish lifestyle without working ever again is beyond me.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by echelon on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:28PM (#35730556)
Because no matter how many experiences you accrue or how much leisure you have, you're already dead on the geologic time scale.

With that perspective, the best thing to do is keep on pushing. Despite whatever pain and headache that might bring, it's one act our short lives can use to push against entropy and the dying universe.

If I ever come into such wealth, I'll spend it all solving as much as I can through my direct involvement.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by mden on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:41PM (#35730770)
Yeah.. but do you think most ultra-rich elite are pushing against entropy or contributing more to it or at best staying neutral while further growing their wealth?
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by TRiG_Ireland on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:56PM (#35731058)
By actively working to make the world worse and increase the sum total of human suffering, à la Musk and Bezos?

If I ever came into such wealth, I think I'd spend my time going back to college to study linguistics. Maybe document some dying languages. Try to contribute to humanity a bit.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by RoyGBivCap on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:36PM (#35730699)
>That would be it. I won capitalism.

Pet hypothesis: A lot of us say that, not being in the position to. But when you finally exit the working class and are no longer required to work, people tend to work on passion projects instead. Sitting on the beach gets boring after a while.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by sarchertech on Thursday April 27, 2023 @02:10PM (#35732266)
A passion project I completely understand. What I don’t understand is what the vast majority of wealthy CEOs are doing: let’s get 5% more people to view our ads, let’s get people to spend 10% more on cheap disposable crap etc…
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by glofish on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:44PM (#35730829)
Re: extremely lavish

Is probably extremely boring - I have never had more fun than when solving problems, life without working on something interesting sounds insufferable to me

How long would I be able to sit on Maui sipping Mai-Tais? Getting massages, ... and more ... whatever I want, whenever I want it ... that is a curse actually.

Surrounded by fake people everyone wanting a piece of the wealth trickle down to them.

On a personal experience, I was a lot happier when I bought my first house, a rundown estate that was the cheapest on the street that then I had to work to improve upon it, ended up replacing most inside and out, some parts I learned to do myself - I ended up remodeling it piecemeal but so, so satisfying

My second house is very respectable, newer, larger, technically incomparably better, it is not even the same ballpark ... yet my new house never provided me with the same joy.

Be careful what you wish for.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by KronisLV on Friday April 28, 2023 @05:27AM (#35739190)
> I have never had more fun than when solving problems, life without working on something interesting sounds insufferable to me.

I'm fairly sure that there are many people like this out there, but for others that just... isn't a problem?

Personally, I quit my last job because I felt like I need to learn some new technology, work on a few personal projects, write blog posts and so on. Since, I've done a little of the above (in addition to improving the security of my homelab and running my own CA), but also took a month off to just enjoy watching videos, reading articles, playing video games, as well as do physical labor around the farm.

And frankly, everything feels enjoyable so far - both intellectually stimulating tasks, physically intensive labor like cutting trees and chopping firewood, as well as passively consuming content, or even zoning out a bit occasionally and having a slow day. Though I can't comment on how long each of those would be satisfying for, that also depends on the person.

I can easily imagine someone enjoying a lavish and relaxed lifestyle and never getting tired of it, though.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by cipheredStones on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:58PM (#35731095)
Unfortunately I think the answer to "why keep working if you're already rich beyond the dreams of avarice" is "because it means you can keep being ultra-rich and powerful and famous". All your material desires will be met regardless, but you won't get to feel as important if you stop working.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by nsxwolf on Thursday April 27, 2023 @01:01PM (#35731152)
This is what always frustrated me about people like Steve Jobs. Don't you like, ever enjoy stuff?
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by goodpoint on Thursday April 27, 2023 @01:34PM (#35731671)
Oh he very much enjoyed pestering his employees.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by dfadsadsf on Thursday April 27, 2023 @01:25PM (#35731531)
> If I built a company and eventually found myself in extremely high value (ie, 9 figures), I'd be looking to retire ASAP. That would be it. I won capitalism. Time to spend the rest of my life on Maui sipping Mai-Tais on the beach.

There is strong correlation between people who find themselves in 9 figures (outside of inheritance) and people who have completely opposite worldview from yours. If you make money to retire to Maui, you will take the first off ramp which allows you to do it which is way before you get into 9 figures.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by jimbokun on Thursday April 27, 2023 @01:38PM (#35731744)
It’s just because you don’t here about all the wealthy people who already quietly did that.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by ZephyrBlu on Thursday April 27, 2023 @01:42PM (#35731803)
Having an executive job confers high status. Being retired does not.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by clnq on Thursday April 27, 2023 @02:04PM (#35732178)
Wouldn't want to be Bill Gates, Larry Page, Steve Ballmer, Jack Welch, or Howard Schultz.
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by ihatepython on Friday April 28, 2023 @09:13AM (#35740890)
Everybody is different.

Some people might like to use their money to take over an institution like the World Health Organization to implement their eugenics program that they dreamed about as a little kid.

Others might be interested in buying up all of the farmland so that they can control the food supply.

You just never know how you will respond when you acquire that kind of money.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by silksowed on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:36PM (#35730680)
add in an equivalent to https://www.glean.com/ to enterprise dropbox and you have a new AI product that actually solves large org problems
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by RestlessMind on Thursday April 27, 2023 @02:07PM (#35732218)
> If you want a recent example you can look at Facebook lighting almost $40 billion with their Metaverse product.

That's just your hindsight bias. Lot of companies have spent billions of dollars chasing apparently worthless product ideas. Some of them turned out to be big hits - electric car in 2009, social media based on 140 characters posting limit, online bookstore, a website to check out pics of your classmates and poke them etc.

I like the fact that Facebook was audacious enough to spend 40B dollars on trying out something new. If successful, it would have opened up a huge new field for tinkering, just like the wave of social media companies in 2009-10.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by d0mine on Thursday April 27, 2023 @02:09PM (#35732253)
Use-case: ask anything you want about files stored in your Dropbox account (like https://chatpdf.com but for more files)
Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by ergocoder on Thursday April 27, 2023 @03:43PM (#35733537)
> But hey, if in a few years Dropbox launches a popular AI-based feature

Ooh betting on a failure? That is the easiest bet ever. If I bet on everything failing, I would win 99% of the time.

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by rco8786 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @04:22PM (#35734008)
> the "product strategy" of most of these companies is close to just spitballing

Literally every company. That doesn't mean that a strategy doesn't exist and is actively curated and maintained by people whose full-time job it is to do so. It's always an educated guess at best. But it's pretty silly to come into a thread like this and be like "psh they store files what could they possibly do with AI".

Re:Dropbox to reduce global workforce by about 16%, or 500 s... by xp84 on Friday April 28, 2023 @09:48PM (#35749224)
I’m genuinely surprised/impressed both Box and Dropbox still exist since they’re single-product-line pure plays, for enterprise only (no way do enough consumers pay for either to matter), and both are competing with what is either free or very cheap to bundle alternatives from MS and GOOG (and what company doesn’t have either 365 or G Suite already?? I know Dropbox tried to make its own office suite a few years back but I’ve never heard of anyone using it. So, it’s a testament to some amazing sales guys that they’re even alive.