News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Space Elevator by csomar on Thursday April 20, 2023 @07:17AM (#35638441)
Couple of things I learned from this:

1. Some birds go really high into the sky. Not sure how they evolved to tolerate such a hostile environment. But it seems that Duck-like birds are able to handle very high altitude.

2. There are lots of cool spaceships that man has made. But it seems most of these were made in the 1950-1990 era. It's a shame that we are no longer doing that.

Re:Space Elevator by Xenoamorphous on Thursday April 20, 2023 @07:24AM (#35638487)
I wonder how they estimated the flying altitude of pterodactyls.
Re:Space Elevator by ljf on Thursday April 20, 2023 @07:39AM (#35638574)
https://www.npr.org/2010/11/16/131362653/peerless-pterosaur-...

Seems to be a good chunk of (educated) conjecture.

Re:Space Elevator by amenghra on Thursday April 20, 2023 @07:30AM (#35638518)
Altitude of current birds x wing size ratio /s
Re:Space Elevator by O5vYtytb on Thursday April 20, 2023 @08:27AM (#35638920)
I have to wonder what you mean we're no longer making cool spacecraft? The SpaceX starship is about to launch in an hour, it's very cool.
Re:Space Elevator by millerm on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:01AM (#35639289)
Watching the countdown now! T-00:28:12! Will be spectacular no matter what happens! Yes, I'm excited. Not sure how the parent comment has missed what SpaceX has been doing with Dragon, Starship, Starlink, and all the rockets! Amazing.
Re:Space Elevator by jackcviers3 on Thursday April 20, 2023 @10:05AM (#35640131)
It exploded when trying to orient for the first stage separation. And it appeared to have 5 of the 33 engines out during the first stage flight. This launch gave me very "Don't Look Up" ending vibes.
Re:Space Elevator by kbelder on Thursday April 20, 2023 @11:10AM (#35641321)
Just the opposite. This is engineer-driven testing.
Re:Space Elevator by jackcviers3 on Thursday April 20, 2023 @11:25AM (#35641558)
I disagree - failures of manned missions set back space flight in half-decade increments. The explosion of Challenger is deeply ingrained in the American psyche. When the rocket tumbled and catastrophically failed, it's all I could think about. I doubt I'm alone.

Also, 5 of the first stage engines failed immediately, and I don't think that was planned.

Couple two major unplanned malfunctions in a single launch test with the weight of manned spaceflight riding in the balance, and it looks more like recklessness than optimism.

The cheering crowd and nonacknowledgement from the announcer of the engine failure and the obvious tumble seemed eerily reminiscent of the final scenes of Don't Look Up.

I'm not against commercial spaceflight. I am against the type of groupthink that led to Challenger, and thought the mission had echoes of that today.

Re:Space Elevator by outworlder on Thursday April 20, 2023 @12:21PM (#35642362)
Yeah. It's one thing to blow up during test firings, or when trying completely novel maneuvers like the belly flop.

It's another thing entirely to do that during stage separation. Sure, historically separation has been risky, but it's nothing novel. They didn't seem to expect the vehicle to survive past that anyways.

There would be a delay even if another vehicle was ready to go - the launch site is a wreck.

Re:Space Elevator by trey-jones on Thursday April 20, 2023 @02:02PM (#35643775)
If you were thrown by the explosion (automated termination, not some catastrophic failure), then you weren't listening to any of the media around the launch. This was a successful mission, gathering data for future launches. Expectations were set appropriately, so I think it's really just your problem for not listening.

In addition, this isn't publicly funded, so it would seem if some of the people get spooked by not understanding the goals of a launch correctly, then it doesn't really matter that much.

Re:Space Elevator by outworlder on Thursday April 20, 2023 @04:31PM (#35645855)
> In addition, this isn't publicly funded, so it would seem if some of the people get spooked by not understanding the goals of a launch correctly, then it doesn't really matter that much.

It does matter that we are scattering debris over a large area for no reason. It does not matter if that was done by the flight termination system or other mechanism.

Re:Space Elevator by RandallBrown on Thursday April 20, 2023 @04:54PM (#35646130)
It wasn't a catastrophic failure, it was self destructed.
Re:Space Elevator by throwawaymobule on Thursday April 20, 2023 @06:58PM (#35647670)
it's amazing how well this works for them. I think this is the main reason they can crank through development so fast. Wish this sort of development was more common.
Re:Space Elevator by millerm on Monday April 24, 2023 @11:27AM (#35688821)
The grand applause when they blew it up showed that it was a success.
Re:Space Elevator by dormento on Thursday April 27, 2023 @04:58PM (#35734481)
Well to be faaaaaair, they were properly "primed" to applaud and call it a success, no matter what happened. But yeah, infinite money does that to you: you can operate in "fail fast" mode and obtain results you could not otherwise.
Re:Space Elevator by csomar on Thursday April 20, 2023 @10:39AM (#35640765)
Yep. But you'd expect that we'd have more given how much technology has advanced and how bigger the economies are now. The recent progress is mostly due to Billionaires now.

Another possibility is: Space is too hard. So instead the focus is to analyze (ie: James Webb) instead of sending a human there.

Re:Space Elevator by piyh on Thursday April 20, 2023 @10:53AM (#35641023)
The incentives for going to space are limited to more economic sensibility when you don't have a dick measuring contest going on between great powers.
Re:Space Elevator by brvsft on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:51AM (#35639914)
To your 2nd point, I'd venture an uneducated guess that the reason we were doing this was largely a part of the arms race between USA and USSR during that period.
Re:Space Elevator by jackmott42 on Thursday April 20, 2023 @10:35AM (#35640692)
List of cool spaceships being worked on now or recently:

* The Falcon 9, the first partially reusable spaceship that actually costs less than not re-using anything

* Terran R - a fully reusable space ship in the works by relativity space

* RocketLab Electron - an active rocket that is unique in its use of electric turbo pumps, 3d printed engines, and advanced composites use

* RocketLab Neutron - in the works, a larger rocket with the aim to be partially re-usable ala Falcon 9 but with a cheaper expendable 2nd stage and simpler design

* SpaceX Starship - in the works, (test flight today!) a large heavy lift vehicle with the aim to be fully reusable

* Blue Origin - working on a ship similar to starship

there are others!

Re:Space Elevator by andorov on Thursday April 20, 2023 @11:00AM (#35641156)
SpinLaunch is pretty interesting too - throwing ships into space https://www.spinlaunch.com/
Re:Space Elevator by avhon1 on Thursday April 20, 2023 @12:01PM (#35642106)
Sierra Nevada Corporation's Dream Chaser - a reusable lifting-body spaceplane, currently slated to fly to the ISS on top of the Vulcan rocket in December 2023
Re:Space Elevator by csh0 on Thursday April 20, 2023 @01:06PM (#35642983)
I had never heard of the Sierra Nevada Corp. and was confused when I thought about the beer company working on a rocket :)

Stranger things have happened though I suppose.

Re:Space Elevator by jaystraw on Friday April 21, 2023 @01:17AM (#35650031)
What great idea didn't start as a sketch on a bar napkin?
Re:Space Elevator by iancmceachern on Friday April 21, 2023 @05:12AM (#35651382)
In other beer space connections, Ball Aerospace and Ball containers who makes many beer cans were once the same company. Also made Ball canning jars.
Re:Space Elevator by outworlder on Thursday April 20, 2023 @12:18PM (#35642331)
> * The Falcon 9, the first partially reusable spaceship that actually costs less than not re-using anything

We don't really know that. This _appears_ to be the case but the accounting is strange. We would probably get better numbers if the company was publicly traded.

I really like the RocketLab designs.

Where's the funding for Skylon? Some US company with deeper pockets should license the design (the heat exchangers are incredible)

Re:Space Elevator by nine_k on Thursday April 20, 2023 @01:12PM (#35643066)
"Appears" or not, but their offered prices and especially the cadence of launching stuff to LEO are currently unmatched, AFAICT. They'd run out of money if they did not make profit on most launches
Re:Space Elevator by outworlder on Thursday April 20, 2023 @04:32PM (#35645866)
Question is, would they make more or less profit by making new rockets versus refurbishing the existing ones? By how much?
Re:Space Elevator by __pache__ on Saturday April 22, 2023 @05:05AM (#35664641)
Go do some basic research? It's clearly much cheaper, ugh
Re:Space Elevator by Joeri on Thursday April 20, 2023 @03:46PM (#35645276)
Stoke Space is building a fully reusable rocket with a really unique second stage design.

https://youtu.be/VzqhZLgpiv0

Re:Space Elevator by swader999 on Thursday April 20, 2023 @10:36AM (#35640694)
I think there's a lot of craft we just don't know about.
Re:Space Elevator by codethief on Thursday April 20, 2023 @11:01AM (#35641169)
> It's a shame that we are no longer doing that.

"We" have built a lot of spaceships since then but they simply went higher up than "just" 100km, so don't show up in the OP.

Re:Space Elevator by ZeljkoS on Thursday April 20, 2023 @12:23PM (#35642391)
Regarding 1, wikipedia about Rüppell's vulture (highest-flying bird) explains the adaptation: "The birds have a specialized variant of the hemoglobin alphaD subunit; this protein has a great affinity for oxygen, which allows the species to absorb oxygen efficiently despite the low partial pressure in the upper troposphere. A Rüppell's vulture was confirmed to have been ingested by a jet engine of an airplane flying over Abidjan, Ivory Coast on 29 November 1973 at an altitude of 11,300 m (37,000 ft)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%BCppell%27s_vulture
Re:Space Elevator by hobo_in_library on Thursday April 20, 2023 @01:06PM (#35642981)
I was shocked to see a butterfly above the cloud level
Re:Space Elevator by kmote00 on Thursday April 20, 2023 @05:02PM (#35646275)
Yes, and the bumblebee was up there pretty high too. You gotta wonder, what were they doing up there? Did they just get... lost? Just taking a nap in a thermal updraft?
Re:Space Elevator by TonyTrapp on Friday April 21, 2023 @08:05AM (#35652501)
It probably got above the clouds just the same way as the mountain goat did: By living on a high mountain.
Re:Space Elevator by jrootabega on Friday April 21, 2023 @09:00AM (#35653060)
I can't vouch for the quality of this site, but it says monarchs have been seen that high by aircraft.

https://journeynorth.org/monarchs/resources/gallery/gallery-...

Re:Space Elevator by mcv on Thursday April 20, 2023 @03:19PM (#35644859)
Swans and geese may not look like the greatest flyers when they're on the ground, but they're among the highest flying birds. But why? Is it their size and strength? Why do people have trouble breathing at that altitude, but birds don't?
Re:Space Elevator by joemi on Thursday April 20, 2023 @05:24PM (#35646572)
I think there are still a lot of cool ones, but not as many sexy ones. Rocket planes like the X-15 were incredibly sexy, IMO, though in many ways not as cool and useful as current rockets.
Re:Space Elevator by nojs on Friday April 21, 2023 @11:02PM (#35662970)
3. The temperature gradient is weird, and doesn’t just get colder the higher you go.