Now, put a lot of air in that thought-baloon and you will see how basically every for-profit will end up doing immoral things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsfzLTBuo0

The worst morale failures in history have been perpetrated by governments.

I'd argue that it's a WTO problem, let's just cut of all ties to countries where bribing in any form is acceptable, leaving us with what? The Nordic countries and New Zealand?

I'm not arguing that it's not an issue, but what would you have them do exactly? The bribing isn't going to disappear because Microsoft says no. Africa will just be running on Red Star OS and Tecent Cloud.

Just like the US is using their clout to force people around the world to eg force French companies not to do business with Iran.

> I'd argue that it's a WTO problem, let's just cut of all ties to countries where bribing in any form is acceptable, leaving us with what?

As a compromise, you could target countries in which bribing is de jure _legal_, and worry about de facto later.

That's already the case. It's already illegal for an American company to pay bribes abroad, even if it's "legal" there. The problem is that like many other people said - you just hire a local "consulting" business that handles that for you and your hands are clean.

Just make that illegal, too? And make sure that ignorance is not an excuse before the law. (Something like gross negligence, if you don't check on your subcontractors well enough.)

It's a shitty argument, I'll grant you that, but it's not a problem that Microsoft can fix. They should take the moral high ground, but the money was always going to be siphoned of.

Saying it is fine when Americans bribe in foreign countries is saying it is fine if Americans are corrupt.

We even had a visiting member of the EU parliament and the CEO directly asked about this scenario. The PM argued that it wasn't ideal, but that it was part of doing business with, in this case, China. Technically, yeah you know, legally, just don't have the word bribe in the contract with the consultants.

I guess people just don't know that that it's just as illegal, or feel it's less objectionable than paying bribes directly. Or they speculate that it's harder to prove.

It also create an uneven playing field. Western countries can't do business in large part of the world, while companies from those same countries are free to sell anywhere.

If you did, sanctioned countries wouldn't be a thing.

'I want to make money' isn't some kind of first, last, or sole moral consideration, overriding all others.

It's obvious though that the problem is getting caught. If bribery is endemic, then you pay both the corporate bribe costs and the "not-getting-caught" bribe costs

Just so y'all know, people have been convicted for international bribery in the US using "arms-length" consultants. This has been called out in every ethics training I've had to take since like 2004.

That's why people need to start thinking of these issues globally, not in terms of what "their country" can do

"Facilitating payments" aka "grease payments" are explicitly allowed in the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

This article is about actual, real bribery, which is illegal under the FCPA.