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Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by talideon on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:43PM (#34999919)
I'd be even more restrictive than that: everyone should get a proper minimum wage, regardless of the line of work they're in, regardless of whether they're performing a direct personal service for you.

Tipping should be for exceptional service. Nobody should need tips to make ends meet.

Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by tick_tock_tick on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:54PM (#35000068)
I mean that's the law in California but tipping is even worse here then most of the country.
Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by red-iron-pine on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:24PM (#35001474)
That's cuz the minimum wage ain't enough to live mon ami. Just enough to not die.
Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by munch117 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:00PM (#35000156)
What's so special about direct personal service? Why does the person cleaning the rest rooms or the person cooking you food deserve less than the person who's transporting plates?
Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by tristor on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:04PM (#35000202)
Mostly, it's a nuance that has legal and tax implications, but the original reason is that a tip is an optional (not required) direct gift from the person receiving service to the person doing service. It's a thank-you gift.

This is heavily diluted when you expect tips for anything else, and it makes it very obvious it's just a hidden fee that may or may not even be going to the workers. Wage theft is the largest type of theft in the US, and a non-insignificant amount comes from tip pooling schemes where owners and managers take a dip.

I tip my barber because they took extra time and attention to ensure I had the perfect hair cut and beard shaping to look good in my workplace or on a date, or whatever. I am not generically tipping for having done a business transaction, the person who took my appointment over the phone is not the person who cut my hair. I am giving a thank you gift to the barber because they took time and attention for /me/ /personally/.

FWIW, I appreciated restaurants that had a menu option to buy a round of beers for the kitchen. I would do that every time it was presented to me, above and beyond a tip. To me, when I tip someone who rendered me a personal service (especially a service where I have a conversation with them), it's me saying "I'd buy you a beer and say thank you, but I can't do that right now and you have other customers, so here's some cash as a thank you.".

Diluting that meaning eliminates the reason I'm willing to tip in the first place.

Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by _puk on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:15PM (#35000386)
The barber one always gets me.

That's a direct 1-1 transaction. You are getting a hair cut, so if it's good, you'll come back. If it's bad you won't. Charge what it costs and give the best service possible.

Granted if they go above and beyond maybe I would tip (buy yourself a beer as you say, but it would have to be more than "they cut my hair").

That's the slippery slope though, whereby if you don't tip you are deemed to not be happy with the service, and so the emotional imperative is to tip to not offend.

Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by tristor on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:24PM (#35000532)
Maybe I'm just a bit of a Karen, but I am always very direct about it if I am not happy with a service so they have an opportunity to make it right. This is especially true with a hair cut. I'm not leaving till it's to my satisfaction. the tip is a thank you for 1. putting up with my particularness and 2. getting it done correctly and 3. bigger if they get it done right without needing correction.

Possibly related, I moved last Summer and it took me until January to find a barber I've now been to repeatedly. I have really high expectations and before moving I had been going to the same shop in my previous city for more than a decade, and was on a first-name basis with my barber there and his wife and eldest son and sometimes hung out with him outside of work (mutual interest in classic cars). For me, the tip is absolutely a direct and personal thank you gift, because I have very high standards not many people can meet, and few that do get it right the first time and as a matter of course. I generally tip well, though.

Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by dfxm12 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:46PM (#35000882)
Charge what it costs and give the best service possible.

All barber shops are different, but usually the person cutting your hair is renting space from the owner of the shop, who may set prices. You can use this knowledge to affect your willingness to tip (or not), just in case you're not tipping because of an assumption that may or may not be valid.

Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by slackdog on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:06PM (#35001207)
I always ask for a "regular haircut", but the haircuts I get with that request can differ a lot. Sometimes I get a quick buzz around the ears and neck, and other times the barber chooses to use scissors for that and really takes his time to get everything looking neat. In all cases the haircut is satisfactory and I'll come back (I've been going to the same barber for 10 years), but when he's in the mood to take his time I'll give him a tip.

> charge for what it costs

I think that's a bit tricky, I don't think the true cost of a haircut is fixed day to day. On slow business days when there is no line, a slow and careful haircut doesn't really 'cost more' than a quick haircut because the daily throughput is the same. But on days when there are a lot of people lining up for cut, slow haircuts will reduce throughput and therefore have an opportunity cost. (This is for a walk-ins only barber.)

Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by munch117 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:18PM (#35000442)
Thank you for the explanation.
Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:45PM (#34999956)
> everyone should get a proper minimum wage, regardless of the line of work they're in, regardless of whether they're performing a direct personal service for you

In America, this is the law. It’s poorly enforced, unfortunately.

Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by talideon on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:35PM (#35000691)
The US has two minimum wages (there's also a "youth" one, but that's a separate issue): the minimum wage for non-tipped employees, and a much lower one for tipped employees, which essentially boils down to whether you're service staff or not.

Now, while individual state may have their own laws around minimum wages above the federal minimum, I find the idea that there two in the first place abhorrent. The current rates are US$7.25 and US$2.13. Neither are remotely livable, but the one for tipped staff is essentially peonage.

So no, this isn't a matter for enforcement. The law is set up to encourage this behaviour.

Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by tzs on Thursday March 02, 2023 @03:15PM (#35001332)
The law is that if someone on the tipped minimum wage doesn't make enough in tips to reach the non-tipped minimum wage the employer has to make up the difference.

In effect if the law is actually enforced the minimum wage is $7.25 for both tipped and non-tipped workers, but if you are tipped the first $5.12 of tips goes to the employer.

My understanding is that enforcement of this is not the best.

Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by dfxm12 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:03PM (#35000192)
I'm not sure why this is (currently) getting downvoted. This is legally correct, at the federal level [0] and at every state level that I'm aware of.

Also, wage theft is a huge issue in the US (and part of the problem is tipped employees not receiving the difference between what they actually made and the minimum wage) and is poorly enforced - https://wageadvocates.com/wage-theft-huge-problem-infographi...

0 - https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

Here's a law in PA: https://www.dli.pa.gov/Individuals/Labor-Management-Relation....

Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by hiddencost on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:52PM (#35000046)
Naw. Minimum wage is not a living wage for the vast majority of the population. Hasn't even pretended to pace inflation.
Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday March 02, 2023 @01:56PM (#35000112)
> Minimum wage is not a living wage for the vast majority of the population

Minimum should be just that: minimum. For higher COL cities, the minimum (and tipped minimum, with an obligation to make the minimum if tips prove insufficient) should be higher.

Raising the minimum nationwide to New York City’s COL basically depopulates lower COL places; this is a source of generally misrepresented rural backlash against these broad-based schemes. Imagine if Germany and Greece had the same minimum wage; the latter would get screwed.

(Not arguing that the federal minimum shouldn’t be raised. Just that it should be too low for most of the country, because if it isn’t, it’s too high for some, and that’s a policy failure for a minimum. I haven’t seen a scheme for a dynamic federal minimum; that would make sense.)

Re:Canadians think tipping is ‘getting out of control,’ new ... by hirvi74 on Thursday March 02, 2023 @02:09PM (#35000276)
Absolutely.

In my wasteland of a state, TN, our minimum wage has not increased a single cent since 2009, and it is still the same as the Federal Minimum Wage at $7.25.