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Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by AdrenalinMd on Sunday February 26, 2023 @07:26AM (#34945007)
Microsoft signed a deal in 2015 to set Yandex as the default search engine in several countries close to Russia. The article mentions "Kazakhstan, Turkey, and Ukraine". The list is not exhaustive, as I know about Moldova and Georgia. https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-partners-russias-ya...

The list includes Ukraine! I've tested Edge with Ukraine as a Region on my MacOS, and it no longer appears to set it to Yandex.

But it still does for several other countries. Which includes Moldova. Moldova is a country that Russia has repeatedly threatened. While advanced users may try and remove Yandex as default, non-tech savvy users likely leave the defaults.

Meaning Microsoft Edge shares data with Russia by setting Yandex as a default search engine for their users, which is really bad.

Please upvote this story to give it visibility. Many thanks!

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by mabbo on Sunday February 26, 2023 @08:04AM (#34945204)
Incredibly damning of Microsoft if they were making deals after 2014 to help the Russian aggression against Ukraine.

That they would still be participating in this deal is even worse.

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by perfect_kiss on Sunday February 26, 2023 @08:26AM (#34945350)
Ukraine banned yandex in 2017 for mass data harvesting of Ukrainians, probably that's the main reason why gp did not find it in Ukrainian Bing. It's still possible and perfectly legal to access yandex or other data harvesting engines/disinfo websites over VPN or Tor, so the ban main objective is to protect non-tech-savvy users from the interference of hostile foreign criminals.
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by somethingreen on Sunday February 26, 2023 @11:08AM (#34946571)
Not sure why the downvotes, as, yes, Yandex along with several other russian internet service companies is blocked in Ukraine and it is almost certainly why it is not being set as default, because doing so would straight up break search altogether.
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by woooooo on Sunday February 26, 2023 @09:13AM (#34945675)
Even worse, they've been doing business with the US after the 2003 invasion and occupation of Iraq.
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by somenameforme on Sunday February 26, 2023 @09:34AM (#34945832)
If a territory declares its independence in a vote that one believes is genuine, are they still part of their former "owner"? And, if so, why is this arbitrarily true for some regions (geopolitical allies of US) and false for others (geopolitical adversaries of US)?

Western polling agencies almost immediately repeated the polls carried out in Crimea, presumably to debunk them, yet found the exact same numbers as Russia recognized. [1] Russia observed a 97% yes vote with an 83% turnout, so ~82% "yes" if we assume the people who didn't vote would all have voted no. Gallup found in their poll that ~83% of Crimeans felt that the vote "reflected the views of the people."

Some don't seem to know that Crimea has always been majority ethnic Russian in modern history. And before that it was majority Tatar (with Tatarstan now a republic of Russia). Crimea has never been Ukrainian, by ethnicity, ever. We're looking at escalating towards WW3 over something most people cheer on while having absolutely zero knowledge of even the basic facts, thanks to our stupid "information warfare."

[1] - https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-a...

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by watwut on Sunday February 26, 2023 @09:45AM (#34945911)
Russia exporting their military into other countries territory does not count as independence.
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by somenameforme on Sunday February 26, 2023 @10:02AM (#34946050)
And you begging the question. When Ukraine's government was overthrown in 2014, numerous regions declared their independence. It's so absurdly illogical to try to claim that they can't do this, yet "we" (in that the 2014 insurrection was overtly backed by the US) have every right to overthrow their government.

Imagine if the January 6th riots somehow actually did end up driving e.g. Biden out of office. Would states that were aligned with Biden (and opposed to Trump) not thusly have the right to refuse to acknowledge the new government and declare their independence? It seems like a heck of a good reason to me!

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by watwut on Sunday February 26, 2023 @10:13AM (#34946135)
That is very manipulative framing and essentially a lie.

That Russia did not managed in 2014 to threaten Ukraine away from western direction is what happened. Russia treated Ujrainian president not to sigh EU membership, Ukrainians revolted. Not an USA coup. And prites against specific rejection of democracy bt president.

Ukraine did not became Belarus in 2014 due to protests which were against Russian meddling. USA proteats were trying to impose autocracy.

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by somenameforme on Sunday February 26, 2023 @10:38AM (#34946328)
This [1] is a video of John McCain in the capitol of Ukraine in 2013, shortly before the occasionally violent protests turned into an outright insurrection. He was saying, with minimal sugar coating, "revolt and we'll have your back." Victoria Nuland, currently part of Biden's cabinet, was also there actively agitating protesters.

Imagine this in a parallel world in the US. Where the US is a relatively weak, impoverished, and deeply corrupt nation. And the speaker was from ostensibly the most powerful nation in the world. You'd have brought out every anti-government individual in the country, all with that twinkle of violence in their eyes. Which is exactly what happened.

I don't really think we would have taken these steps if we felt that the protests would have played out as desired without our meddling, because it ruins even the perception of independence. It was just another in the endless line of long US driven coups. That's not to say the Ukrainian people (particularly of Western Ukraine) were happy. But there's a dramatic difference between dissatisfaction, even to the point of occasionally violent protest, and an actual successful insurrection.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93eyhO8VTdg

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by watwut on Monday February 27, 2023 @02:34AM (#34953975)
I am imagining parallel in USA. A politician promises to bring in EU membership and people want it. Then, whole country changes itself to conform and people are happy about it. Then American politician refuses to sign contract due Russian threats. Then there are protests and American cops try to violently suppress them. They fail over months and then Russia invades America.

Meanwhile, some EU politicians says words of support. Well, in this case, EU is good and Russia is still meddling into USA politics.

As for impoverished nations, being in Russia world is becoming more like Belarus or Chechenya. Or more like poor regions of Russia itself. The countries that joined EU are waaay better off then Russia puppet states.

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by somenameforme on Monday February 27, 2023 @10:30AM (#34957522)
But you're not really engaging in good faith here. The "whole country" does not agree, in the least. The parts that are unhappy about having "their" president overthrown declare their independence. The new government refuses to acknowledge these declarations, and tries to forcefully recapture these countries. And we have a Civil War, exactly as happened in Ukraine.

And now the US is happy to push this Civil War to the brink of World War over what would have otherwise been a relatively inconsequential border war. And I think Einstein's quote is quite apt, "I do not know what weapons WW3 will be fought with, but I do know that WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones."

It's all about as brilliant as WW1 where a Bosnian Serb assassinates an Austro-Hungarian royal and the next thing you know Brits are killing Germans over it, and tens of millions die. And the icing on the cake is the ethnic issues that drove those initial events still exist, more than 100 years later.

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by IYasha on Monday February 27, 2023 @03:20AM (#34954224)
what aggression?
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by prometheon1 on Monday February 27, 2023 @05:53AM (#34955017)
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by jaynetics on Sunday February 26, 2023 @10:09AM (#34946112)
Thank goodness edge's market share is very low in these countries. About 2% for Moldova [1].

For MSFT, this is a huge embarrassment, reminiscent of Google's infamous "project dragonfly".

And they deleted your inquiry on their forums for "violating the community guidelines"! Not exactly PR geniuses, are they?

[1] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/moldova

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by AdrenalinMd on Sunday February 26, 2023 @10:29AM (#34946259)
I wonder how accurate those numbers are about Edge. As 79.48% of desktop users in Moldova are on Windows 10 and Windows 11. [1]

Microsoft Edge is the default web browser on Windows 10, Windows 11. [2]

Meaning at a huge amount of population will see Yandex when they search for something at least for the first time. Unless they install another browser immediately or change the default search engine.

And yes, I wasn't expecting to see my inquiry deleted on their forum. I'm posting again without the screenshot. In case they didn't like what Yandex returns as results (which is weird, as it is their "business partner").

I'm also very humbled by the support of the hacker news community. As a long time lurker, it warms my heart a lot to see so much support. I hope it reaches Microsoft.

[1] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/d...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Edge#Features

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by lockhouse on Sunday February 26, 2023 @12:05PM (#34947111)
Defaults don't matter as much as we all pretend they do.

For the decade that Internet Explorer sucked basically all computer users got programmed to treat it like a Chrome/Firefox downloader. Most users don't know that Edge is Microsoft flavored Chrome now, so they continue to use Edge to download other browsers and move on with their lives.

This is an unpopular opinion, but IE4 and especially IE5 were significantly better than what Mozilla/Netscape were putting out at the time. This is what grew their marketshare more than the bundling that everyone focused on. Then Microsoft sat on IE6 for years and let it fall way behind everyone else. IE7 was basically IE6 with tabs. By the time they began investing in their own browser again it was largely too late.

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by onlyrealcuzzo on Sunday February 26, 2023 @10:58AM (#34946469)
Edge is so irrelevant, that you have to wonder why everyone's obsessing with MS's recent moves with it.

It's <5% (and decreasing, still pretty quickly).

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by pessimizer on Sunday February 26, 2023 @11:17AM (#34946667)
> It's <5% (and decreasing, still pretty quickly).

How many tens of millions of irrelevant users does that represent?

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by onlyrealcuzzo on Monday February 27, 2023 @03:11PM (#34961263)
5% and shrinking is 5% and shrinking.

If you start with a gigantic number - even 0.1% of is going to still be gigantic.

It doesn't make it really matter in the grand scheme of things.

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by sidibe on Sunday February 26, 2023 @01:41PM (#34948079)
It's bizarre that the nixed Project Dragonfly is a considered a bigger embarrassment than Bing working continuously to this day in China.
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by jaynetics on Sunday February 26, 2023 @03:22PM (#34948981)
I made the comparison with Dragonfly because they had special features planned to make users more easily identifiable for the PRC government, thus the similarity with this MSFT/Yandex situation.

Are you aware of Bing doing anything like this? (I think it's bad enough that they take part in censorship, don't get me wrong.)

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by sidibe on Sunday February 26, 2023 @03:49PM (#34949258)
Whatever Google was doing with Dragonfly was to comply and gain re-entry to China, we can assume Bing has to do whatever Google was supposed to do.
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK on Sunday February 26, 2023 @11:00AM (#34946484)
And once you go to Yandex search page, it will spam you to death to install Yandex browser, which will automatically install Russian government CA certificates, allowing them to spy on all your web traffic!
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by dmitrysvd on Sunday February 26, 2023 @03:25PM (#34949003)
If I understand correctly, they can only spy on you if they have full access to your traffic, including the ability to modify it, in order to carry out a MITM attack.
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by IYasha on Monday February 27, 2023 @03:20AM (#34954220)
They can only spy on you if you use these certificates e.g. visit government sites.
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by thesmok on Monday February 27, 2023 @10:44AM (#34957726)
You've chosen a wrong place to disinform. Tech people understand that having russian CA certificates installed allows russia to MITM all your traffic, if they can access it.
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by elkos on Sunday February 26, 2023 @01:54PM (#34948210)
To my understanding, Yandex is nowadays based in the Netherlands.
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by ROTMetro on Sunday February 26, 2023 @01:58PM (#34948260)
Not after the war. Yandex had it's parent company which was headquartered in the Netherlands removed from operations and instead a new company headed by Aleksei Kudrin, a longtime confidant of President Vladimir Putin was put in charge.
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by ROTMetro on Sunday February 26, 2023 @05:51PM (#34950536)
Love the down votes. Sorry about reality guys. You're probably just supporting innocent/aligned in thought Russian programmers:

https://ain.capital/2023/01/27/yandex-developers-used-racist...

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by itwillnotbeasy on Sunday February 26, 2023 @06:12PM (#34950724)
It's the same thing as company being based on Cayman Islands, it's mostly on paper really. Most of their offices, and human force are located in russia, in 2009 they sold golden share for 1 eur to the russian goverment(which allows to temporarily suspend the head of Yandex among other "benefits"), yeah and CEO(was resigned in dec 2022) and several other people from the board members are sanctioned by the West.

> "As founder and CEO of Yandex, he is supporting, materially or financially, the Government of the Russian Federation and is responsible for supporting actions or policies which undermine or threaten the territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine," the EU's listing states.

> The document also accuses Yandex of "promoting State media and narratives in its search results, and deranking and removing content critical of the Kremlin, such as content related to Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine."

from: https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/06/yandex_ceo_arkady_vol...

Yeah and they are going to change the formals too - Yandex NV(based in Netherlands) is considering turning the main part of the business into a separate Russian group https://newsunrolled.com/economy/132317.html

Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by smsm42 on Sunday February 26, 2023 @02:22PM (#34948473)
I love it how Russians paid Microsoft to make Russian search engine default in Ukraine, without asking Ukrainians, and nobody in Microsoft thought there's anything wrong with that.
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by yakireev on Monday February 27, 2023 @10:12AM (#34957299)
Unitedstatians from Google pay Unitedstatians from Apple to make Google default search engine for all of the world, without asking anyone, do you consider this a problem too?
Re:Microsoft Edge sets Yandex as default search engine in Mo... by caskstrength on Sunday February 26, 2023 @02:43PM (#34948659)
> The list includes Ukraine! I've tested Edge with Ukraine as a Region on my MacOS, and it no longer appears to set it to Yandex.

Yandex has been banned in Ukraine for some time now, so no point for MS to still have it as default search.