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Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by yamtaddle on Thursday February 23, 2023 @09:36AM (#34911074)
I'm never, ever, ever going to be able to convince my wife cast iron is any good. This is because we have cast iron pans, and she's tried to use them, and finds them entirely terrible. Yes, we've done all the fiddly seasoning and such. I'll cook in them, but she hates the things.

Tiny chance I'll be able to convert her to stainless for most things, but we're never not going to have one teflon pan for eggs and crepes and such.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by siftrics on Thursday February 23, 2023 @09:44AM (#34911196)
If you cook eggs correctly, they stick less to a cast iron pan than to a teflon pan, and they hold together better.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by dahfizz on Thursday February 23, 2023 @09:52AM (#34911306)
Anytime your solution to a problem is "Just exert more effort and skill and do it correctly", there is a 100% chance the general public will not adopt your solution.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by klodolph on Thursday February 23, 2023 @10:23AM (#34911708)
The worst is when I see this advice used for backup policies.

Like, the backup is there to save your ass when you don’t do things correctly. If the backup needs you to exert more effort and do things correctly, then it’s most likely to be broken when you need it the most.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by xeromal on Thursday February 23, 2023 @09:56AM (#34911363)
This should be codified as a law of the internet.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by HPsquared on Thursday February 23, 2023 @10:07AM (#34911508)
Dahfizz's Law
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by halfnormalform on Thursday February 23, 2023 @01:45PM (#34914642)
I've heard something similar phrased as "Discipline doesn't scale."
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by siftrics on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:00AM (#34912223)
I agree, but I think it's less effort to cook eggs in a cast iron.

Just add a dash of oil and cook on medium low-heat with a lid.

I never spend more than five seconds cleaning because the eggs never stick.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by testTED on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:39AM (#34912782)
This explains the state of the general public very well.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by yamtaddle on Thursday February 23, 2023 @10:18AM (#34911653)
I'm still struggling with conveying, "you have to get the stainless pan hot and lay down some fat before you add the food, or it will stick". Add the tendency of cast iron to unpleasantly flavor acidic foods (which is lots of foods) and it's hopeless, as far as convincing goes. At least stainless doesn't do that. I might win her over for stainless, mostly, but cast iron's going to remain only for me.

No denying that it's a lot easier to make eggs or pancakes or whatever on teflon, while distracted by also trying to get the kids dressed and such, without ruining the food or making a mess, than it is on other materials. Even if you know what to do with other pans, you still have to do it, and that takes more attention and care than teflon.

If it comes out that teflon pans are, in fact, a major source of ingested or inhaled PFAS, I'll probably kick up my efforts to convert her. In the meantime I suspect a lot more of it comes from other household materials (clothes, carpet, furniture—plus stuff in cars) that've been treated for fire and stain resistance, so I'm not super worried about the pans.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by hgomersall on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:09AM (#34912333)
You need stainless for acidic foods. We have both types of frying pans. The problem with Teflon as I understand it is that it breaks down to PFAS at temperatures that are easy to reach in a frying pan. It might be that Teflon other things are better (like a stand-alone grill thing), but I just try to avoid it.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by buu700 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @01:43PM (#34914618)
I'm still struggling with conveying, "you have to get the stainless pan hot and lay down some fat before you add the food, or it will stick".

Would she be willing to use a timer? She can just set it for 10 - 15 minutes after turning the burner on, and avoid putting anything in the pan until after the timer is done.

I've certainly ruined my fair share of eggs by rushing, but having the patience to let it get up to temperature is pretty much the only "hard" part of using cast iron.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by yamtaddle on Thursday February 23, 2023 @01:53PM (#34914745)
Maybe, I dunno, but it only took a couple fucked-up dishes before she was like "why the hell am I doing this when there's a teflon pan right there?"
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by kingnothing on Monday March 06, 2023 @05:21PM (#35048589)
10 minutes? You don't need the pan to be 900 degrees! It's more like 1-2 minutes.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by buu700 on Monday March 06, 2023 @06:36PM (#35049447)
lol, well I was erring on the side of caution because she's clearly doing something wrong here. That being said, in my experience, 5 - 10 minutes is about right unless I go out of my way to preheat at a higher temperature.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by greenie_beans on Thursday February 23, 2023 @10:16AM (#34911625)
what is the correct way to cook eggs?
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by siftrics on Thursday February 23, 2023 @10:58AM (#34912198)
I see what you're saying.

For me: dash of oil, medium-low heat, and a lid.

You don't even have to clean the cast iron because the eggs don't stick.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by webnrrd2k on Thursday February 23, 2023 @06:14PM (#34918165)
If I'm cooking bacon, then I baste them in the hot bacon fat. But mostly I like to put enough olive oil in the pan so that I can easily baste the eggs with a soup spoon. Salt, lots of pepper, and baste 'em -- the tops solidify just enough not to run.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by lumb63 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @09:51AM (#34911291)
How’s that? Got any additional info?
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by yamtaddle on Thursday February 23, 2023 @09:56AM (#34911356)
Seriously, the single time I've made eggs work without having a layer of stuck egg at the end, in cast iron, was on this immaculately-maintained ancient cast iron pan in an AiBnB on a Mennonite farm, and even that only worked because I cooked them in a bunch of sausage grease, probably amounting to 10x the fat I use in teflon (butter, in that case).

But, I usually make scrambled, and you need tight, lowish temp control for those, which is one thing teflon really excels at (cast iron and stainless need higher temps to prevent sticking)

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by lukevp on Thursday February 23, 2023 @10:25AM (#34911745)
Try carbon steel, it’s much less sticky
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by insanitybit on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:13AM (#34912388)
I think I'm legitimately an egg cooking expert at this point. I've cooked eggs in 1000 different ways on different pans. There's no comparison - a non-stick pan is going to trivially handle eggs, regardless of how your pan is oiled, the heat, etc, whereas a cast iron is only going to do a decent job if you're cooking eggs in a few specific ways and you take care to control temperature and oil.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by earthling8118 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @01:06PM (#34914136)
It's also pretty trivial to get right. I'd use carbon steel just because it can heat faster. I can have my pan ready to go in 2 minutes of heating. Use a bit of oil (sometimes I mix in a tiny bit of butter to help nonstick, but it isn't required) and it's good to go. The difficulty is extremely exaggerated. I've not had a need for nonstick
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by acdha on Thursday February 23, 2023 @01:13PM (#34914249)
If the non-stick pan is brand new, yes. The problem is that you need to replace them every couple of years as the coating become degraded or they perform worse - even if you religiously use only soft utensils, simple use and cleaning will break it down.

Unless you’re trying to avoid using oil for some reason, there is no time savings.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by insanitybit on Thursday February 23, 2023 @09:29PM (#34919991)
> simple use and cleaning will break it down.

This isn't my experience. Low heat (which is how you should be using them) and soft utensils (I prefer to use those anyway) should be enough to keep it going - I have no scratches or wear on mine that I've noticed, though I did just replace them. They're quite cheap so replacing isn't really onerous either.

> Unless you’re trying to avoid using oil for some reason

I don't want my eggs to be particularly oily, or if I'm explicitly making a buttery french scrambled eggs I want to use butter and I want to add it in later, not use it for lubrication/ stick. You'll need much more for the cast iron.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by mtalantikite on Thursday February 23, 2023 @10:23AM (#34911711)
I have a de Buyer carbon steel omelette pan and it is completely non-stick once seasoned. Way nicer for eggs than a cast iron, maybe she'd be open to trying that. I also have one of their crepe pans that we use for tortillas and dosas, check those out too.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by yamtaddle on Thursday February 23, 2023 @10:28AM (#34911792)
We're about due for some new pans (the worst non-health-related thing about teflon is that they're much more a consumable item than other pan types) so I'll see about snagging one or two of those, thanks for the tip.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by earthling8118 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @01:08PM (#34914170)
This is the main reason I ditched them. Carbon steel is my primary pan type now. When you're breaking in a new pan use just a little bit of butter for stuff like eggs. I use more oil than butter but just having a little amount present helps.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by hgomersall on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:06AM (#34912295)
I'll echo this. One thing I learnt is that metal scourers, used judiciously, are perfect for cleaning a well seasoned carbon steel pan. Basically, the scourer pulls off the few bits that catch on the pan and if you don't really scrub (which you should never need to) the seasoning is robust enough. Just remember to not cook anything acidic (for which we use stainless) and try not to leave things in the pan for ages.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by voldacar on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:02PM (#34915699)
How do you season it? How do you clean the pan, and does it need to be seasoned again after cleaning?
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by mtalantikite on Thursday February 23, 2023 @04:36PM (#34916848)
Serious Eats has a good post on it [1].

Basically, remove the beeswax layer, then rub a layer of oil on the pan and heat it until it fully smokes off. You can do it on a burner or in the oven at 450F. You'll do that a maybe 3-5 times on a new pan, up to you. They tell you not to do carbon steel in the oven because of the material of the handle, but I've done it before and it worked out fine. I generally just use the stove top because it's easier.

You clean the pan with soap and water as you would any other pan, and then towel dry since you don't want rust forming on the metal. You'll need to re-season it every so often depending on how much use the pan gets, but that's usually only every couple years.

[1] https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-season-carbon-steel-pans

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by Workaccount2 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @10:50AM (#34912076)
I use both, I have a cast iron, a carbon steel, and a non-stick.

The truth is that the non-stick is the most non-stick of the bunch when compared across all things you could cook in a pan. Sometimes I just want to reheat my pasta quickly and uses a quick splash of water and a paper towel to totally clean the pan.

I am a total nazi though about making sure metal never touches the non-stick. It always gets cleaned and put away in its special spot immediately after using it.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by insanitybit on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:11AM (#34912361)
Could I ask why she has an issue? I've heard some people have had problems with them but as someone who was born and raised on cast iron I've never really understood.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by yamtaddle on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:21AM (#34912499)
More care & technique required while cooking to keep things from sticking or burning, the seasoning and iron itself flavors acidic foods so the pans aren't as nearly-universally-useful as teflon, can't put them in the dish washer, cleaning in general becomes a kind of balancing act between leaving soon-to-be-rancid fat on the pan (which will flavor your next dish) and stripping the seasoning (you can't just clean everything off, completely, like you can with teflon or stainless).
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by arcticbull on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:46PM (#34913860)
It’s really not nearly as bad as you’ve made it out. Put some salt in the pan, rub it down, apply a thin layer of oil and good to go. Is not some occult ritual.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by yamtaddle on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:54PM (#34913950)
My pans and experience disagree, but OK. Sometimes that's true, sure, but getting a stuck-on mess off them is worse and more fiddly than other pans.

Recall, I do use cast iron, my wife's the one who finds it to be too much.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by bioemerl on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:01PM (#34915682)
You don't even need that. Soap and water work fine.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by arcticbull on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:05PM (#34915747)
Yeah soap is fine, I like the salt for abrasion.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by acdha on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:59PM (#34914012)
If it comes off easily in cleaning, it’s not seasoning. It’s much easier to clean or cook on cast iron than Teflon for that reason — nothing short of power tools or an axe will render it unusable the way you can do with Teflon.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by yamtaddle on Thursday February 23, 2023 @02:21PM (#34915082)
If this were as true as cast iron fans claim, teflon wouldn't have dominated home kitchens for decades, I expect.

I do cook on cast iron, but even the absolute very best cast iron pan I've ever cooked on (not mine—I get the cheap stuff, this was one of those perfectly-smooth beautiful hundred-plus-year-old pieces that'd been cared for quite well and was seasoned better than I've ever managed to get any of mine, despite trying every method that can be found online) wasn't as easy to cook on or to clean as teflon.

They beat teflon at searing and toasting (e.g. nuts or whole spices), mostly because teflon can't safely be heated to temps needed for those, but anything else? Very best case I've ever experienced, almost as easy to cook with and clean as teflon, worst case, way, way worse. Plus you've gotta keep acid away from the cast iron if you don't want your food to taste of iron and/or old polymerized fat, which really limits its utility.

[EDIT] It occurs to me—maybe people who find cast iron about as easy as teflon just cook extremely-different cuisine from what I do? I tend to do a lot of one-pan and sauce-and-starch-in-skillet stuff that's often hell in cast iron, if not just wholly inappropriate for it due to the acid levels. If way more of my cooking were steak-and-hard-vegetables dishes, say, I might wonder why people bother with teflon.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by acdha on Thursday February 23, 2023 @02:42PM (#34915400)
There’s also a cost factor: a Teflon pan will be considerably cheaper, and most people don’t factor in the service life. Once you’re used to something you usually replace it with the same thing.

The other trend was Nixon pushing low fat diets. By the time actual scientific results debunked that, a generation of Americans had adjusted recipes to avoid using as much fat as you need to cook optimally in cast iron and it’s still common to find people using techniques which pretty much require non-stick.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by bioemerl on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:03PM (#34915707)
Cast iron is actually pretty cheap.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by bioemerl on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:03PM (#34915705)
Cast iron has three fatal flaws.

It's heavy.

It rusts.

No dishwasher.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by insanitybit on Thursday February 23, 2023 @09:33PM (#34920024)
TBH I think it's less the pan and more the kitchen. Growing up I thought cooking in a cast iron was a pain because I had a really shallow sink, weak water pressure, and I cooked for my family so dishes would pile up.

I live in a place with extremely strong water pressure and a very deep sink, plus the faucet is one of those rope ones that can be held arbitrarily. It rips through anything on the cast iron, leaving it clean in under a minute. Cleaning is, in general, much much much faster in my new place - plus I have a dish washer so dishes don't pile up, only the cast iron (or some specialty knives, maybe) generally needs to be washed in the sink.

I cook a lot of sauces in the pan and it's all good now that I have the room and tools to clean it off.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by aosmond on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:25AM (#34912549)
How about ceramic pans?
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by yamtaddle on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:31AM (#34912660)
You mean enameled cast iron? We've got a big pot like that, great for things that need to go in the oven, not just on the stovetop, but it's damned heavy so I don't tend to use it unless I have to.

[EDIT] Oh, googling, yes, we do also have a ceramic-coated steel(?) fry pan still kicking around, though I almost never use it because the non-stick was never great and got worse fast. Teflon better if I need non-stick, stainless better if I don't and also don't want to have to baby the pan.

Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by earthling8118 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @01:03PM (#34914087)
Stainless steel just really isn't the same thing or used for the same purpose. It is an important type to have available but I wouldn't cook eggs in them for example. Better to use a carbon steel or cast iron so I can just cook in it and not worry about stickage.
Re:PFAS Can Suppress White Blood Cells’ Ability to Destroy I... by bioemerl on Thursday February 23, 2023 @02:57PM (#34915611)
I got a pre seasoned one and beyond the care to make sure it doesn't rust it seems identical to Teflon to me. Lodge, got it from Walmart.