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Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by ElijahLynn on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:19PM (#34902936)
Yuck:

> MB.OS is designed and developed in-house to retain full control

You better have some world class software engineers to pull this off, a LOT of them. And retain them. If not, you better go open source. You can still retain full control with open source.

Good software is the KEY to good cars, especially electric ones. Why are we inventing 100 different models of cars every year? What a waste of human potential.

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by oneplane on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:25PM (#34903045)
Ecosystems are the key, not so much in which house or how public it is built. (see: iOS) It's also a system for a car, and probably a niche one at that.

There are a few things that are relevant in Car-OS these days:

  - Ecosystems
  - Long-term maintenance
  - Integration with a phone that takes over most day-to-day interactions
  - Car should work without it
If MB.OS and BMW's version and Audi and whoever else wants to build one doesn't support CarPlay or Android Auto (or whatever their future incarnations will be), it is already irrelevant. If anything, MB.OS is about as relevant to a consumer as QNX is. Or VxWorks for that matter. (spoiler: consumer doesn't care and doesn't really want anything to do with it)

That doesn't mean that all car makers should just keep using an ancient QNX version statically forever, or whatever some OEM happens to install with the head units, but an in-house Linux distro with some vendor branding sauce really is about as relevant as blinker fluid.

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by TheRealPomax on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:50PM (#34903409)
This makes an odd assumption about what drives, and does not drive, sales. Companies don't buy 300 company car because it has the best center console OS.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by oneplane on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @05:03PM (#34903576)
No, it doesn't. What I wrote is the exact same thing you condensed here:

> Companies don't buy 300 company car because it has the best center console OS.

However, I centred mine more around personal consumers, rather can organisational buyers. It's also not just some console OS, but an ecosystem that also reals with sensors and self-driving features.

I also went more into the technical aspects of operating system success, but rather than say something to the extent of "yet another QNX-style lineage is about as useful as Windows Mobile", I wrote a slightly more expanded story, just like Mercedes-Benz did on their announcement (but they added a whole lot of extra fluff about how their OS is a value add).

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by solarkraft on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @08:07PM (#34905473)
> If anything, MB.OS is about as relevant to a consumer as QNX is

QNX isn't exactly defining for an ecosystem, MB.OS probably will be.

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by jacquesm on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:34AM (#34907138)
I beg to differ with that. If you shut down QNX globally it would pretty much end civilization. So much stuff runs on that little core that it boggles the mind.

The great gift of QNX is that it is so reliable that you forget it is there. But no mistake: it is still there and it still works and without it you'd miss it right away.

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by nix23 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:38AM (#34908280)
Yep QNX and VxWorks, for smaller stuff RTEMS and FreeRTOS are just everywhere.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by mackman on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:20PM (#34902961)
I’d be surprised if this isn’t just another Android fork.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by delecti on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:36PM (#34903227)
I work there, and I'd be massively surprised if it were.

Historically, their in-vehicle software has been handled by other companies they've contracted, and is radically different from generation to generation (different company each time).

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by mempko on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:34PM (#34903191)
It's not from what I read. MBUX, the UI is built using Qt.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by joezydeco on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @06:08PM (#34904375)
That kind of implies that the new Mercedes OS will have some kind of POSIX API, since Qt doesn't really work without it. Their new Qt/MCU bullshit doesn't count.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by pjmlp on Thursday February 23, 2023 @01:56AM (#34907618)
Windows isn't POSIX, and Qt does just fine there.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by joezydeco on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:10AM (#34912346)
Sorry, was talking more about embedded systems bindings. Qt has shims, obviously, to work with Mac/Win/GTK etc but when you're setting up Qt as the windowing system, it needs POSIX.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by dezgeg on Thursday February 23, 2023 @06:16AM (#34909108)
I'd be pretty sure that any company can pay money to Qt Company and have them come and integrate Qt into any kind of weirdo OS whatsover.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by Dig1t on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @09:57PM (#34906153)
Exactly like Tesla.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by HellDunkel on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:39PM (#34903265)
The name MB.OS is misleading. It is not a new operating system but a linux or android based hmi sytem.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by tormeh on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @06:23PM (#34904549)
My bet is that the name is due to internal empire building or hype to shareholders. Being in charge of "MB.OS" sounds better than "another attempt at a good infotainment system". Add in trendy "digital" offices and you've got yourself an aesthetic.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by HellDunkel on Thursday February 23, 2023 @02:23AM (#34907805)
I think it is simpler. It used to be MBUX and that was hard to communicate to people on the street. MB.OS is a lit closer to iOS which helps.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by whalesalad on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:24PM (#34903014)
I disagree. Sometimes you need to invent things yourself. Mercedes is an absolutely massive company with many subsidiary brands. This is not an automatic bad move.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by ElijahLynn on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:31PM (#34903148)
But they are not a software company at the core. They need to be to pull this off.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by orbifold on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:42PM (#34903309)
Both Mercedes and Volkswagen have absolutely massive software divisions, easily 10k+ people. They pay really well for German standards and have access to a large talent pool of people that would like to live in Germany.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by rad_gruchalski on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:56PM (#34903498)
Big and well paid doesn’t equal quality. The fiasco of id3 is the best example. Or the whole Audi/VW drama. It doesn’t change the fact that their management just doesn’t get software. Pouring more money over that and hiring more “talent” isn’t going to change that.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by ryandrake on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @05:48PM (#34904144)
Most hardware companies are not known for good software. They treat software like it's just another line item on the BOM: Like a bolt or a screw. Procure it as cheaply as possible, scoop it into the product on the assembly line, and make sure it passes a few checkboxes and you're done. Unless they see software as a core differentiating product feature that drives purchases, their quality bar is going to be "barely good enough to not cause a product recall".
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by mantas on Thursday February 23, 2023 @06:35AM (#34909234)
These days even most software companies ain't known for good software :D

There's very few quality software products these days. And that's usually just a temporary state before eventually a product gets messed with :(

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by pbasista on Thursday February 23, 2023 @02:33AM (#34907876)
> The fiasco of id3

Could you explain what specifically you refer to?

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by rad_gruchalski on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:32AM (#34908245)
https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/11/21288572/volkswagen-id3-e... + general search for "software id3" shows that issues plague this car to this day.

Diess lost his job because of that: https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/26/from_beetles_to_bugs_....

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by ulfw on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @08:30PM (#34905611)
Most of their software is done outside of Germany.

MBRDI, known for its engineering innovations, has grown to a team of over 6,000 employees and is one of the earliest technology and innovation center of a global automotive company to set up a strong presence in India.

https://www.mbrdi.co.in

At Mercedes-Benz Research & Development North America, we develop and certify cars for the U.S. and the world in six locations. Our work ranges from powertrain development and vehicle certification, to autonomous driving technology and in-car user experiences including advanced interior and exterior design. It is not just about cars, it is also about creating the latest and greatest software, cutting-edge technology, and groundbreaking innovation.

Locations:

Ann Arbor, MI Carlsbad, CA Long Beach, CA Redford, MI Seattle, WA Sunnyvale, CA

https://group.mercedes-benz.com/company/north-america/merced...

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by orbifold on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:37AM (#34908278)
Volkswagen planned to hire 10000 new people for their "Car.Software" division in Wolfsburg, Ingolstadt, Berlin, as well as Seattle und Peking until 2025. They are also building up their hardware division with plans to do cutting edge node designs in 5nm and beyond. I know that they have extensive recruiting efforts in both areas.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by VirusNewbie on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @10:31PM (#34906393)
Do you think the talent pool of people that want to live in germany and don’t want to make substantially more working for american companies is large?
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by orbifold on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:33AM (#34908255)
Have you lived in Germany? I would only consider going to the US for substantially higher pay. Also there are 80 million Germans, many of whom are fairly well educated and would like to work for Mercedes in Stuttgart.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by VirusNewbie on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:19PM (#34913433)
Oh, I didn’t mean immigration, I meant there are US companies that have offices in Germany that pay more and likely scoop up the local talent.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by ChuckNorris89 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @01:11AM (#34907359)
>Both Mercedes and Volkswagen have absolutely massive software divisions, easily 10k+ people.

That doesn't mean jack. Most large German companies I worked at tended to be super inefficient, being very top heavy and prone to constant turf wars and power struggles between the managers, as that was the only career path that made you any decent money so everyone was focusing on that instead of building great products.

>They pay really well for German standards and have access to a large talent pool of people that would like to live in Germany.

Meh, pay is underwhelming, as they focus more on getting off-shore talent from abroad on a visa who's more interested in getting to Germany at any cost rather than netting a higher market wage or increasing wages to attract local talent.

These companies are good places to coast on average wages, not to make money and innovate making great products.

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by nix23 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:43AM (#34908321)
>They pay really well for German standards and have access to a large talent pool of people that would like to live in Germany.

But they don't pay well for IT standards, German standards (IT) are lower (sometimes a lot) then polish ones.

>large talent pool of people that would like to live in Germany.

From Hungary, Romania or Turkey? Because no one else in Europe would like to work in Germany (in the IT industry). A bit of reality salt would be better for the German IT-Industry.

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by cududa on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:55PM (#34903492)
I mean their self driving tech seems to be the most impressive out there
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by LanceJones on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @06:27PM (#34904591)
Umm, no. I tried their Drive Pilot L3 system in Germany over the Christmas holidays (MB EQS) and of 8 hours driving, it was only available for me to drive for 12 minutes (and not a continuous 12 minutes, either). Granted this does not mean the system is poor quality, but it's horribly impractical... if it's rarely to ever available.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by cyberlurker on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @06:57PM (#34904919)
It sounds like they are more responsible than the other companies.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by hackernewds on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @08:53PM (#34905750)
Exactly. Using your customers as guinea pig data collectors for an undeveloped system seems to be the go-to. There have been noted fatalities due to this.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by Cipater on Thursday February 23, 2023 @10:49AM (#34912069)
What are you basing this assertion on?
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by SkyPuncher on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @11:10PM (#34906651)
Can you elaborate on why they need to be?
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by erulabs on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @06:04PM (#34904325)
> Why are we inventing 100 different models of cars every year? What a waste of human potential.

Human efficiency and human potential are very different things. I don't want to be an efficient cog in a well designed efficient machine. I want to be a human being - building cars is cool and fun. Fun is probably a waste too, I suppose. "Two plus two makes four without my will", etc.

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by corbulo on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @06:47PM (#34904821)
Think of all the cool and fun things that no one has built yet though.
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by trpv on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:01AM (#34908056)
Like all the cool cars that haven’t been built yet. Some people really enjoy them
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by corbulo on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:36AM (#34908269)
Those are definitely included
Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by wyldfire on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @09:05PM (#34905812)
What constitutes an "OS"? It's not entirely unfair for Mercedes to call a customization of Linux an "OS". If it includes GNU coreutils, the linux kernel, but a new init system and communication or UI libraries, you could call that "Mercedes Benz OS". A marketing whiz certainly would!

Or you could even s/linux/QNX/g. But in any case, running a trusted and reliable kernel that wasn't designed by an auto manufacturer could still be what they're doing.

Re:Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS by trpv on Thursday February 23, 2023 @02:56AM (#34908030)
Good cars are the ones that have the least software imo. I’d prefer my car to not have adaptive cruise control, brake or lane assist, etc. More failure points and less control over my own car