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Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by pphysch on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:33PM (#34810893)
> Today, it came to the Government’s attention—based on data obtained through the use of a pen register on the defendant’s gmail account—that the defendant used a VPN or “Virtual Private Network” to access the internet on January 29, 2023, and February 12, 2023.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pen_register

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by gzer0 on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:44PM (#34811039)
I mean, I knew that there was mass surveillance occurring, but to this extent... perhaps I needed a refresher on just how much warrantless data is being collected on the citizens of the United States.

The DEA has warrantless access to with no judicial oversight under "administrative subpoenas" originated by the DEA. The DEA pays AT&T to maintain employees throughout the country devoted to investigating call records through this database for the DEA. The database grows by 4 billion records per day, and presumably covers all traffic that crosses AT&T's network. Internal directives instructed participants never to reveal the project publicly.

Information that is legally collectible according to 2014 pen trap laws includes:

Phone

  * Dialed numbers
  * Received call numbers
  * The time the call was made
  * Whether the call was answered, or went to voice-mail
  * The length of each call
  * Content of SMS text messages
  * The real-time location of a cell phone to within a few meters
Email

  * All email header information other than the subject line
  * The email addresses of the people to whom an email was sent
  * The email addresses of people whom received the email
  * The time each email is sent or received
  * The size of each email that is sent or received
Internet

  * IP address, port, and protocol used
  * The IP address of other computers on the Internet that information was exchanged with
  * Time-stamp and size information of Internet access
  * Protocol traffic analysis to obtain URL web addresses surfed on the web, emails posted or read, instant messages exchanged, and information posted onto message boards
The last one is particularly damning. Interesting that no warrant is needed for any of this.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/02/us/drug-agents-use-vast-p...

[2] https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013...

---

Crucially, they said, the phone data is stored by AT&T, and not by the government as in the N.S.A. program. It is queried for phone numbers of interest mainly using what are called “administrative subpoenas,” those issued not by a grand jury or a judge but by a federal agency, in this case the D.E.A.

Administrative subpoena authorities allow executive branch agencies to issue a compulsory request for documents or testimony without prior approval from a grand jury, court, or other judicial entity.

---

Planting AT&T employees and deeply embedding them within the government like that, utilizing "administrative subpoena's" that require no grand jury OR judge (just the DEA themselves) is, in my personal opinion, a breach of my 4th amendment right.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by munk-a on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:51PM (#34811129)
While I agree this level of surveillance is worrying since it's probably also being applied to normal people.... SBF has been charged and has been awaiting trial domestically since Dec 30, 2022. They are, from a spectator[1] point of view, quite clearly guilty of a lot of shady stuff and it would honestly be pretty bonkers if they had access to private communication for non-privileged conversations at this point.

1. Edited as per comment below.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by danjoredd on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:01PM (#34811281)
I assume that they are paying special attention to his internet connection considering the extent of his fraud. While a VPN can hide your IP, your ISP can still tell when a connection is using a VPN so if the courts allow law enforcement to monitor his connection then they would know.

Now, if SBF connected through a McDonalds wifi somewhere and they somehow found out it was him using a VPN, that would be concerning because there is no way they should know that its his laptop unless they knew he was on his way there ahead of time and somehow got permission to monitor their public wifi. That feels very unlikely

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by pwillia7 on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:57PM (#34811226)
> peanut gallery

I didn't know this until recently -- https://www.rwjbh.org/why-rwjbarnabas-health-/ending-racism/...

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by munk-a on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:59PM (#34811255)
I was completely unaware as well - edited.
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by tristor on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @06:35PM (#34812573)
The article the other poster linked is making a category error, an unfortunately common one, of confusing something which has classist origins or connotations with being racist.

The term "peanut gallery" originated from vaudeville theater, and comes from the fact that unruly viewers who were not happy with the performance would throw their concessions at the performers, mostly roasted peanuts as these were the cheapest concessions. The attendees of early vaudeville were primarily immigrants, who would now be considered white, but were not at the time (scottish, irish, italian, and german immigrants).

There's nothing particularly racist about the term, never has been, and still isn't as it's used in modern parlance. Whether or not it's acceptable to use phrases with classist or class-based origins in your speech and writing is an exercise I leave up to you.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by pwillia7 on Friday February 17, 2023 @11:08AM (#34836347)
psh -- pleb. :P

I did share a bad article I didn't read. I will do some more research on peanut gallery specifically. In either case, I probably still won't use it since it has this connotation to some people.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by spiralx on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:57PM (#34812117)
That page also claims that "picnic" has a racist origin based on lynching, despite being derived from a French word from the 1690s:

https://www.etymonline.com/word/picnic

Their entries on "long time no see" and "no can do" seem pretty spurious as well, which undermines the whole page's validity. It's a shame TBH, those are really strange unforced errors to have included.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by pwillia7 on Friday February 17, 2023 @11:06AM (#34836305)
Oops -- I did the classic google, copy/paste, no read. Looks like I picked a bad source. Sorry!
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by emmelaich on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @08:10PM (#34813567)
That list is a bit absurd. Very USA-centric. And completely wrong in the case of picnic (pique-nique)
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by joshspankit on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @08:37PM (#34813806)
> probably also being applied to normal people....

What’s off many people’s radar is that hard drive technology is past the point where the surveillance doesn’t have the be selective or in real time: all metadata can just be collected all the time and stored indefinitely. For all citizens.

Even passive audio recording is within reach: 24/7 recording for 1 year takes less than 1TB. Video is not even out of reach for those with the money to spend.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by salawat on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:42PM (#34811879)
Keep in mind, any 3rd party record is not covered by the 4th Amendment. There is no expectation of privacy nased on 3rd Party Doctrine.

Also, there is a forensics package that can be hot loaded on just about every router out there for law enforcement purposes.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by mlindner on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:55PM (#34811196)
Warrants that mandate a monitor of a specific email address are not "mass surveillance".
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by gzer0 on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:01PM (#34811277)
Warrants that are granted by no grand jury, nor a judge? are these even valid warrants at this point?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_subpoena

I'm not defending SBF. The man needs to be charged and be put behind bars for the crimes committed. I'm just stating that this article was eye opening to me.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by harmon on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:11PM (#34811438)
Mass surveillance is out of control as you say, and I am a strong proponent of reigning in warrantless wiretaps and governmental overreach. However, as many people have stated, a pen register (which requires a warrant) against a specific individual suspected of a crime where there is a MASSIVE amount of evidence suggesting that the suspect is guilty has nothing to do with mass surveillance. This is targeted, narrowly scoped surveillance of a specific suspect and is precisely what law enforcement should be doing.
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:04PM (#34811320)
> granted by no grand jury, nor a judge?

Pen register orders require court approval [1].

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3123

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by gzer0 on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:11PM (#34811437)
An administrative subpoena under U.S. law is a subpoena issued by a federal agency without prior judicial oversight.

I didn't say a court wasn't needed; I implied that this is a Kangaroo Court

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by abduhl on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @06:53PM (#34812764)
Sorry, I’m not seeing the part of the law that allows an ALJ to permit this (which makes perfect sense - title 18 is the criminal code and crimes can not be prosecuted in administrative proceedings generally). The statute seems to contemplate only district courts and state courts, neither of which are “administrative.” Where are you seeing a reference to an ALJ being able to issue one of these, particularly in a criminal case?
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by gzer0 on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @09:27PM (#34814190)
[1] Federal Trade Commission (FTC) - FTC v. Innovative Marketing, Inc., the court allowed the FTC to use administrative subpoenas in a criminal case involving fraudulent business practices. The court found that the information requested by the FTC was relevant to the criminal case and that the use of administrative subpoenas was an appropriate means of obtaining that information.

[2] Department of Justice (DOJ) - In United States v. Parris, the court allowed the DOJ to use an administrative subpoena to obtain information from a bank in connection with a criminal investigation. The court found that the DOJ had the authority to issue administrative subpoenas under the Bank Secrecy Act, and that the information requested was relevant to the criminal case.

[3] Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) - In the case of SEC v. Jerry T. O'Brien, the court upheld the SEC's authority to issue administrative subpoenas in connection with a criminal investigation. The court ruled that the SEC could use administrative subpoenas to obtain information that was relevant to the criminal case.

[1] https://casetext.com/case/federal-trade-commission-v-innovat...

[2] https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/...

[3] https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/467/735.html

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by abduhl on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @10:38PM (#34814687)
These cases do not say what you think they say. Please cite to the actual parts of the decision that discuss the legality of administrative subpoenas issuing for a criminal case rather than the admissibility of information provided in response to a civil subpoena by a third party. Recall that we are talking specifically about the use of a pen register in a criminal case brought by the DOJ, not random regulatory compliance required in highly regulated industries.

The FTC case is a civil case. The DOJ case does not even mention the word subpoena as far as I can see. The SEC case is a civil case.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by ryan_lane on Thursday February 16, 2023 @03:05AM (#34816204)
He's been arrested and charged, and he had been specifically ordered to not use encrypted communications methods by the court as a matter of his bail.

It makes perfect sense that they'd be monitoring his communications to ensure he was in compliance with that order.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by kevin_thibedeau on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @06:02PM (#34812180)
EO12333 permits warrantless monitoring of people operating under a government background investigation for employment. 4 million+ people are subject to mass surveillance.
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by landemva on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @08:48PM (#34813882)
Of course, anyone can not apply to work for feds to avoid this.

And bail terms for SBF seem too lenient. Restriction on all computers and phones would seem appropriate.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by RhodesianHunter on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:47PM (#34811081)
What makes you assume no warrant in this case?
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by sho_hn on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:55PM (#34811184)
The Wikipedia page on "Pen register" suggests you don't need a warrant.
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by cldellow on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:02PM (#34811293)
The Wikipedia page talks about the history of pen registers over the last 100 years.

It's a lengthy, complicated page, and I'm not a lawyer... but I think the relevant section that describes their current use is this one, which suggests to me that you do need a warrant:

> For law enforcement agencies to get a pen register approved for surveillance, they must get a court order from a judge. According to 18 U.S.C. § 3123(a)(1), the "court shall enter an ex parte order authorizing the installation and use of a pen register or trap and trace device anywhere within the United States, if the court finds that the attorney for the Government has certified to the court that the information likely to be obtained by such installation and use is relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation".

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by sho_hn on Friday February 17, 2023 @03:23PM (#34840026)
As I understood it, a court order is not a warrant. A warrant requires probable cause, a court order does not? I may be wrong.
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by popilewiz on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:55PM (#34811193)
The dude is under several investigations, including a criminal one. I'm pretty certain one of them mandates the monitoring of his internet use. Not that the info you provided is not disconcerting.
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by landemva on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @08:49PM (#34813893)
> one of them mandates the monitoring of his internet use.

Is that in bail conditions?

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by sschueller on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:46PM (#34811064)
So in this case it's basically a BCC on his Gmail?
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by Tostino on Thursday February 16, 2023 @01:15AM (#34815671)
More than that it seems, pretty much Google sharing all activity logs on the account in question when told to by a court. So, no matter what you do to try and hide your trail, if you try and interact with your existing account at all LE will be informed.
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by alwayslikethis on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @04:47PM (#34811076)
Should have gone with Mullvad (not affiliated). They don't require or send emails.
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by shaugen on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @06:54PM (#34812774)
I think you misunderstood what they are tracking. Google would still see him login into his gmail account from a know VPN provider IP address. And Google is the entity logging and sharing logs, not the VPN provider.
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by alwayslikethis on Thursday February 16, 2023 @01:17AM (#34815685)
Possibly. The document doesn't say exactly how, but I was thinking of a scenario where SBF received an email from a VPN company, since email metadata can be collected under the Pen Register Act. Though what you said about Google logging IPs might be the case instead.
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by Animats on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:03PM (#34811307)
It's amusing that the Government calls what they're doing with Google a "pen register". They usually do that to squeeze through the small exception in the Fourth Amendment created by Smith v. Maryland.

The pen register shown in that Wikipedia article is mine. To use it, you need physical access to a phone line, probably at the central office. You put in a blank spool of paper tape, add stamp pad ink to the ink roller, and wind it up with a big brass key. When it detects a dial pulse, the clockwork mechanism starts the tape moving, and each dial pulse produces a dash on the tape. There's a mechanical idle timer which stops tape movement after a few seconds of idle time. I built a box with a phone dial to run that brass device as a demo.

That's what law enforcement had to use in the days of electromagnetic central offices. Only long distance calls were logged. Local calls were, at most, counted. That's why the Supreme Court decision refers to a pen register as an "extremely limited" device.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by dragonwriter on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:19PM (#34811574)
> It’s amusing that the Government calls what they’re doing with Google a “pen register”. They usually do that to squeeze through the small exception in the Fourth Amendment created by Smith v. Maryland.

Well, they do it most directly because it is a “pen register” as defined in law: …the term “pen register” means a device or process which records or decodes dialing, routing, addressing, or signaling information transmitted by an instrument or facility from which a wire or electronic communication is transmitted, provided, however, that such information shall not include the contents of any communication, but such term does not include any device or process used by a provider or customer of a wire or electronic communication service for billing, or recording as an incident to billing, for communications services provided by such provider or any device or process used by a provider or customer of a wire communication service for cost accounting or other like purposes in the ordinary course of its business;… 18 U.S.C 3127.

You are correct that this statute was created to manage the process related to the exception identified in Smith v. Maryland, but I don’t think that there is a good-faith argument that it is either inconsistent with the scope of the exception or anything except a limitation on law enforcement compared to not having the statute.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by cloudripper on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:17PM (#34811544)
Fascinating.. Thank you for the history lesson. Do you happen to have video of your demo functioning that you'd be willing to share?
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by Animats on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @09:50PM (#34814360)
No, I haven't made a video. I'm not a YouTuber.

I might should make a video and upload it to the Internet Archive, for historical reference. These seem to be rare devices.

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by joshspankit on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @08:32PM (#34813768)
Sounds like for transparency there should be another photo added to the article: the (probably ominous) currently-used “internet pen register”.
Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by Animats on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @10:57PM (#34814805)
Look up "CALEA", the US law that requires telecom and internet providers to build in wiretapping. It's mostly software in routers, but there's something called a "CALEA Mediation Device", which is the interface between the network and the wiretapping agency. Here's one: [1]

[1] https://www.shoghicom.com/fixed-line-lawful-interception.php

Re:SBF Caught Using VPN While Awaiting Criminal Trial [pdf] by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @06:16PM (#34812364)
How would the Government obtain similar information if the person under criminal investigation (SBF) was not using Google and was using his own mail server instead.

For those worried about privacy, consider that Google may be a far greater concern than the Government. Unlike the Government, (1) Google is not subject to one hundred plus years of case law enforcing laws to protect citizens from unwarranted government search and seizure and (2) Google's business is invading privacy and collecting data about people. The Government, unlike Google, is not making billions of dollars by surveilling computer users; it does not depend on unregulated online privacy invasion and unconstrained online advertising.

The Government does even need probable cause to ask for pen register data from Google (cf. seizing a person's personal mail server which would likely require warrant). Another argument not to let Google collect and store peoples' data.