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Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by nocsi on Saturday February 04, 2023 @06:51PM (#34659798)
In previous times, the US would ignore these balloons and quietly take them down. Instead they made a big deal out of it and milked it. Brilliant and opposite of what china expected
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by davidu on Saturday February 04, 2023 @06:56PM (#34659848)
Not sure where your info is from, but this balloon was seen by the naked eye and all over social media. As someone who lives in Montana, many many people could see it. The idea that the USG prompted the publicity is unlikely to be accurate (would suggest a calculated social media psyop). Not impossible, but not likely.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by colinsane on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:34PM (#34660170)
there’s a bit of difference between it being spread as a meme online and then quietly fading into the background v.s. the President of the country ordering it to be shot down by a jet and then announcing said order to the public.

just how close/far is this from “business as usual”? if this balloon were no big deal, i wouldn’t expect it to be escalated to the Commander in Chief. which tells me either (a) there’s (suspected to be) some real serious shit aboard that balloon or (b) Whitehouse is making a show of this for political reasons (e.g. to justify upcoming action against China, another surveillance bill, etc) or (c) top officials are clueless and don’t understand the signals they’re giving to the public here.

none of those explanations i find reassuring.

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by itake on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:43PM (#34660229)
I pick (b)! There was a negotiations meeting with China coming up that was canceled.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by LarryMullins on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:01PM (#34660370)
(d) The government usually ignores it, but the public caught onto this one and started calling Biden weak on China for ignoring it.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by jcampbell1 on Saturday February 04, 2023 @10:06PM (#34661348)
(d) Joe Biden is desperately in need of some crisis. He is facing a Republican Congress which is going to accuse him of working with his son to secure their financial future through shady corrupt deals in China and Ukraine.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by riskpreneurship on Saturday February 04, 2023 @11:04PM (#34661723)
Eh, it's been a slow news week for the US.

According to the front pages...New England had some cold weather today.

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by twelve40 on Sunday February 05, 2023 @01:53AM (#34662620)
if there was as you say some real serious shit aboard they would have shot it right away before it got to do its thing, no? I really don't buy "after it could cause damage by falling" because it flew over some pretty deserted spaces.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by snozolli on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:19PM (#34660063)
How big was it? I don't mean your well thought out estimate, I mean your gut impression.

Smaller than the end of your pinkie at arm's length?

I gather that it gave the impression of being somewhat normal sized and much closer than it actually was, gauging by the number of people who thought they could shoot it down with their firearm.

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by heartbreak on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:32PM (#34660154)
Not the commenter, but my gut impression was that it looked a lot lower than normal commercial air traffic that I see around here. The circling fighter jets were very hard to see (other than their vapor trails) but the balloon was extremely visible.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by slim on Sunday February 05, 2023 @01:37AM (#34662553)
How did you know it was chinese ?
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by blamazon on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:23PM (#34660085)
The US state apparatus did not make a big deal of this. The media and the public did, and the US state apparatus answered to the media and the public, as is their duty.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by FpUser on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:33PM (#34660164)
>"The US state apparatus did not make a big deal of this."

Cancelling / postponing (whatever it will be) Blinken's visit to China does seem like a big deal.

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by blamazon on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:40PM (#34660213)
Via NPR transcript of a segment today: [1]

> SIMON: This trip was supposed to happen this weekend, right?

> KELEMEN: Yeah. I mean, we were planning to fly out last night. We had our visas in hand and our bags sort of packed. So this was very last minute. Though Blinken had been raising concerns with the Chinese about this balloon since Wednesday, when pictures started appearing on social media of this thing way far up in the sky over Montana.

My interpretation is that this move was likely forced by the public furor.

[1]: https://www.npr.org/2023/02/04/1154473950/u-s-cancels-blinke...

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by LarryMullins on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:04PM (#34660407)
That's the way it seems to me as well. The earlier excuse about not shooting it down over Montana because of falling debris didn't make a ton of sense. I think they didn't want to shoot it down because the threat was long ago characterized and the standard operating procedure is to ignore these balloons. But once the public started making a big deal about it, politicians respond to that.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by pixl97 on Saturday February 04, 2023 @09:00PM (#34660845)
And I agree this has been largely because of public furor. Now, something that's interesting is 'ufo' videos have been trending on tiktok for some time with lulls and resurgences in their postings. When this large object showed up and people started capturing pictures it is no surprise to me it took off on social media.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by ProAm on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:39PM (#34660698)
> Cancelling / postponing (whatever it will be) Blinken's visit to China does seem like a big deal.

It's all political posturing. Look into the history of if you are allowed to take a photo with a handshake or not in political photographs. It's just part of the game to ensure you still have power or relevance,

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by KennyBlanken on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:02PM (#34660389)
I'm not saying it happened here, but the US media has a very, very long history of being happy to take a ball from the white house, military, or cabinet - and run with it.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by blamazon on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:09PM (#34660455)
Fair dinkum! We probably won't know for sure what maybe happened until someone involved maybe writes a book in 5-50 years.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by dragonwriter on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:25PM (#34660579)
> The US state apparatus did not make a big deal of this.

The majority leadershio of the House are not “state apparatus”? Because they were the main source fanning a big deal out of it.

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by blamazon on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:54PM (#34660804)
I mean, no political commentary intended, but I don't really see the present house as like, well represented at the helm of the government? It seems like the state apparatus is keeping them at arms length from power, yes, due to the internal turmoil that has been ongoing for some time. Thus I basically mentally lump them in with "media and public."
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by DonHopkins on Saturday February 04, 2023 @09:04PM (#34660872)
They're anti-state apparatus -- remember, they're the ones who attempted a coup.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by throwawaylinux on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:38PM (#34660686)
The media is the US state apparatus.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by hackerlight on Saturday February 04, 2023 @10:28PM (#34661507)
> The media and the public did, and the US state apparatus answered to the media and the public, as is their duty.

Their job isn't to respond to every current outrage in the media cycle. That's why we have a representative democracy and not a full direct democracy. They're to be held accountable for their overall performance every few years, and in the interim are supposed to be resilient to the short term ebbs and flows of public sentiment (which are fickle and can be manipulated) and do what's actually good for the people in the long run.

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by esolyt on Sunday February 05, 2023 @03:58AM (#34663177)
> the US state apparatus answered to the media and the public, as is their duty.

No, the state feeds the media what it wants to see reported. They can share what they want and they can hide what they want from the media.

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by mc32 on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:10PM (#34659974)
It seems more likely that the balloon being visible forced the gov to acknowledge the balloon. It's unclear if that had any effect on the decision of when to shoot it down. Apparently they had been tracking it over the Aleutians, so they could have downed it over the Pacific, if they hadn't pussyfooted it.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by sandworm101 on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:21PM (#34660080)
But would you want to go recover it in the alaskan wilderness, possibly on a mountain, in winter? They waited until it got somewhere more convenient.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by beedeebeedee on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:57PM (#34660826)
I don't think they are really that interested in recovering it- if you look at the photos, they targeted the payload instead of just the balloon. Only going to be litte bits leftover. https://news.usni.org/2023/02/04/3-navy-warships-fbi-now-hun...
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by sandworm101 on Saturday February 04, 2023 @09:09PM (#34660917)
They hit it with a sidewinder, which has a warhead more akin to a shotgun blast. Nothing will be totally destroyed. Enough will remain of its various sensors and antennas to tell exactly what it was doing.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by ozarker on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:19PM (#34660056)
Bullshit. Had civilians not seen it the government would never have reported it.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by jjtheblunt on Saturday February 04, 2023 @09:43PM (#34661173)
Not even as a purposeful distraction from something more important?
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by jjtheblunt on Sunday February 05, 2023 @09:06PM (#34672343)
this is interesting that it's downvoted, as in the day since multiple articles are showing up that the hype of this balloon is incongruous with the many ignored over the previous 4 years.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by onlyrealcuzzo on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:27PM (#34660112)
What did they use to shoot it down?
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by maximinus_thrax on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:29PM (#34660133)
https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/32...

> An F-22 Raptor fighter from the 1st Fighter Wing at Langley Air Force Base, Virginia, fired one AIM-9X Sidewinder missile at the balloon.

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by onlyrealcuzzo on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:56PM (#34660338)
So it probably cost >$1M to shoot it down?

How much did that balloon cost to make?

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by dragonwriter on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:16PM (#34660507)
> So it probably cost >$1M to shoot it down?

AIM-9X looks to be around $400k, F-22 is $85k per flight hour, so, probably not.

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by LarryMullins on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:07PM (#34660440)
> So it probably cost >$1M to shoot it down?

Basically free, when you consider they were going to fly planes and shoot missiles anyway for practice.

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by herewulf on Sunday February 05, 2023 @02:56AM (#34662869)
Except the military has lots of different pots of money and lots of red tape about how they're spent. No guarantees the cost of this little escapade came out of a training fund.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by sabujp on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:02PM (#34660386)
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by IAmGraydon on Saturday February 04, 2023 @09:31PM (#34661079)
What's your point?
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by programmarchy on Saturday February 04, 2023 @10:32PM (#34661528)
Seems to be implying if it’s cheap enough then they could send 1 million balloons next time, and it’d be impractical to shoot them all down.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by xeromal on Sunday February 05, 2023 @12:26AM (#34662215)
Sounds like a job for a c130 at that point. lol
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by ttul on Saturday February 04, 2023 @10:20PM (#34661441)
Sure. $1M for the AIM, and $100M for all the other gear and personnel involved.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by anigbrowl on Saturday February 04, 2023 @06:54PM (#34659821)
Given that it was visible to the naked eye and people were talking about it, it's silly to blame this on the government.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by gruez on Saturday February 04, 2023 @06:59PM (#34659888)
>Given that it was visible to the naked eye

But why did this garner so much attention compared to the weather ballons that the US launches on a regular basis?

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by tcmart14 on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:36PM (#34660185)
Not even just weather balloons. Launching balloons using ham radio by amateurs is also pretty popular thing to do by ham radio operators around the world.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by sandworm101 on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:25PM (#34660098)
Weather balloons dont hang around, literally. They climb constantly to record data across the altitude bands. This thing was relatively stable, so not a weather balloon.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by anigbrowl on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:02PM (#34659915)
Probably because it was quite a bit larger than usual, going by initial reports. What do you want the government to do, lie and pretend it's one of theirs?
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by jghn on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:08PM (#34659959)
It also helps that one side of the political spectrum were able to use it to cast doubt and blame at the other side of the spectrum
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by allisdust on Saturday February 04, 2023 @08:43PM (#34660723)
There is an enemy balloon flying in your sovereign space and all you could think about is it enables the other side of the politics? Would you say the same thing if its an enemy war plane. And there is no way to to tell which is which just because it looks cute and fluffy floating in the air.

I'm not from the US but at this rate your country doesn't need any external enemies.

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by geerlingguy on Saturday February 04, 2023 @09:51PM (#34661244)
Sadly right now social media bubbles seem to be fostering the whole "if you're not with me, then you're my enemy" mentality that used to be only the realm of extremists.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by jghn on Saturday February 04, 2023 @10:40PM (#34661582)
You realize that this isn’t all that novel a situation, right?
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by Spooky23 on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:35PM (#34660180)
It has a big equipment platform hanging off it, and it allowed the right wing people to blabber about POTUS being soft on China or whatever for a new cycle.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by colechristensen on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:15PM (#34660020)
Weather balloons are tiny, we’re comparing a cardboard box with a small house here scalewise.
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by cavisne on Saturday February 04, 2023 @07:48PM (#34660272)
It went viral in Montana and was not shot down until it left the country in North Carolina.

If this was a planned media push it would have been shot down before it entered the united states.

Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by eddsh1994 on Saturday February 04, 2023 @09:43PM (#34661171)
Have a single source?
Re:U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance ... by hackernewds on Saturday February 04, 2023 @11:51PM (#34662010)
That seems counterintuitive to the political flak that Biden and the military took over the days, seeming incompetent and weak to take down a balloon