> I’m waiting for (probably far off) day when System76 makes its own laptops instead of using Clevo hardware. I just can’t deal with that keyboard & trackpad quality.

oh, i never knew that! i thought they made everything.

for real though, who thought that having pgup and pgdn as mini keys on top of the left and right arrow keys was a good idea? and how did that get through quality assurance?

Page up and page down in that location is fairly common in business-class laptops; Lenovo, Dell, and HP all do it in at least some models.

IBM ThinkPads had Back/Forward buttons there. They acted like the back/forward buttons on mice these days. Very useful for browsing in Windows Explorer and IE. I loved them.

They make their desktops but not their laptops. That's probably why their laptops can sometimes have some weird quirks (keyboard layouts, screen resolution options, etc).

It's really common. The term is ODM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laptop_brands_and_manu...

I vastly prefer pgup and pgdn there. Moving between tabs in a browser is Ctrl+PgDn / Ctrl+PgUp, and physically mapping it near left/right arrows matches my mental mapping.

Weren't they working on making their own hardware a while ago (5 years ago, I think)? Have they ever given an update on that?

Yeah, they announced that in 2019 if not earlier. At some point they said it would be delayed, presumably due to the pandemic.

I purchased a high end workstation and was incredibly disappointed by the case construction and extraordinarily weird design choices made in service of aesthetics or...something.

what are some of the examples that you were dissatipointed by?

I can’t speak for the OP but just take a look at any $50-100 ATX PC case and see all the features it has in terms of cable management, connectivity, airflow/ cooling of all critical components and modularity. That in my view is the bar that a high end workstation should be better at.

I'm surprised. I have a 2 year old Thelio, and I really like the internal layout for my use case.

Same, I love the little slot where screws fit and the upper location for hard drives.

Yeah, exactly. First time I've encountered that. And since my goal was to add a SATA dive, it a very pleasant discovery.

Really wish they would just merge with Framework to make an amazing Linux based hardware & software package.

I just wrote into System76 support looking for a replacement battery for my Lemur Pro (swollen battery), and mentioned I'd switched to my Framework in the meantime. Just got a response a few minutes ago:

> I received your message in the support ticket that you have gotten a Framework Laptop. A great choice.

Gave me a burst of hope for official Pop!_OS Framework laptops sold through S76.

If that means getting 15" framework laptops with discrete GPUs, sure. If it means sticking to the current framework or a larger one with the same basic hardware... nothanks.

Similar for me. When I looked at System 76 laptops 1-2 years ago, the keyboard type was a deal-breaker for me. They were like Asus ROG laptop keyboards, whereas I strongly prefer keyboards like my Lenovo Legion's.

I was hopeful when they announced an all-AMD laptop recently. But unfortunately it's too small / underpowered / non-upgradeable for my needs, and I couldn't tell from the pictures if the keyboard was more to my liking.

To be fair, even Framework laptops don't have swappable keyboard types, AFAICT. So even a System76-Framework team-up wouldn't necessarily fit my needs.

I have a ~6-year-old Clevo laptop (from Mythlogic, which tells you something). After about five years, the keyboard kinda crapped out. Got a new keyboard, took about ten minutes to swap it in. The hard part was getting the part, had to order it from China.

I have one from mid-2014 (base model W550SU, now-bankrupt distributor), used about as heavily as anyone would ever use one (probably averaging sixty hours a week). Its keyboard was not great within one year (spongy), and distinctly unpleasant after two years (very spongy), with its space bar becoming extremely unreliable during the third year. It became impossible to type at speed on it.

I actually got a laptop from sager (clevo) and after 5 years of heavy use. my biggest complaint is the dam case. all the plastic clips broke. only a few screws holding it together. lots of gaps now. and a few cracks in the plastic.

but it's been thrown in a back pack and gone through several years of traveling in a back pack

Why don't Clevo's customers ask Clevo to upgrade the hardware and create a premium line?

But how about "do one thing, but do it right"?

You'll be happy to know that system76 pangolin laptops are not clevo.

source: https://fosstodon.org/@soller/109677885135544538

is the touchpad better? Have to agree with GP that clevo touchpads are bad, i have the orpy5 and the touchpad is the worst. Its bad on windows too so it isn't just some linux driver thing. Super easy to do stray palm presses and send the cursor to random places.

who makes the pangolin? I heard they were getting HP to make them some machines

Why is the author so secretive about who made the hardware?

They may not have permission to share it. They may just be acting coy because the scope of the conversation. They may just not know it. They may feel it just doesn't matter. Who knows?

A S76 QA engineer shared more details on Reddit.

> The chassis and motherboard for this product are manufactured by a company called Emdoor. The final assembly will be done in-house at System76's Denver factory (the same place Thelios and Launches are manufactured.)

https://old.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/10a3lqj/amd_ryzen...

It’s sold out now but they did a collab with HP called the Dev One. I haven’t seen one in person but I hear the hardware quality is quite good.

https://hpdevone.com/

I don't get it: a Linux laptop with physical buttons on the touchpad but only two of them. I've been pasting text with the middle button all the time since forever and any time I had to use a two buttons mouse or touchpad it was hell. My ZBook has three buttons. It was one of the reasons I bought it.

Less visible downsides: only 1 TB SSD (I have 3 TB now), 16 GB RAM (I have 32) and the screen is smaller as the laptop is "12.73 x 8.44 x 0.75 in; 32.34 x 21.46 x 1.91 cm"

The only good points are that it weights almost half of mine and it's numberpad free :-)

The reason I haven't bought HP Dev One is glossy screen.

Been using linux for 10 years, had no idea you could paste with the middle mouse button.

It is probably the #1 feature I miss on other platforms, and its also a second copy buffer (different than ctrl-C/V)

> I hear the hardware quality is quite good

Word is, it's HP EliteBook 845 G8

(https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/wc9d7a/hp_de...)

You can try Purism instead, which already are making their own hardware. Happy owner here.

I have one too. I love the very standard hardware - even a regular barrel jack for the power adapter.

That said, the keyboard could be better.

I hate the trend in flat-top keys we have now. I honestly love the feel of gently recessed keys. I had an early macbook pro and the keys seemed to press against my fingertips uniformly instead of having the "hotspot" you get in the center of the flat key.