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Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by osrec on Friday December 09, 2022 @04:50PM (#33926820)
I actually think this is a very good analysis. A lot of Tesla vehicles feel like they value form over function.

What really was interesting for me, was the fact that electric trucks from more established players exist already, but haven't really taken off.

Maybe the Musk x-factor will allow Tesla to sell their truck where others have failed.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by spaceman_2020 on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:25PM (#33927202)
For the life of me, I can't fathom the EV obsession with touchscreens.

Why?! I can understand one touchscreen for complex functions, but at least retain buttons for core functions. No one wants to tap five different screens to control the AC direction or wiper blades.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by annexrichmond on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:37PM (#33927327)
maybe one reason is that it's far cheaper to do touchscreens than a bunch of individual parts and circuit boards? And EVs are already pretty expensive and need to be competitive, so maybe they try to cut costs where they can.

Add to that, I'm sure some market research is telling them either touch screens are popular, or that it's not a deal breaker for most people

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by spaceman_2020 on Saturday December 10, 2022 @03:33AM (#33931014)
Hard to buy the cheaper argument when the cheapest cars in the world already have buttons.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by lWaterboardCats on Saturday December 10, 2022 @12:36PM (#33934608)
Harder to turns vehicles as a SaaS product with physical override features
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by maxerickson on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:37PM (#33927336)
It's not a good reason, but it cuts down on part count and assembly time (and complexity).
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by yreg on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:59PM (#33927569)
Also let's you change the UI at any time after shipping the product. Basically everything Steve said in the original iPhone keynote applies.

Of course there are significant drawbacks as well.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by Espressosaurus on Friday December 09, 2022 @06:53PM (#33928112)
Except I don't want my car changing its UI. Ever.

I dislike it enough when Microsoft or Apple slip in a UI update with a feature update. For something like a car the driving needs to be instinctual so I can spend my attention on the other vehicles. Changing the UI gets in the way of that instinct.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by shepherdjerred on Friday December 09, 2022 @07:38PM (#33928441)
Then don't buy cars with touchscreens. Some (most) people do want new features added to their devices.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by defterGoose on Friday December 09, 2022 @11:38PM (#33929908)
I'm not sure that being in any presumed majority group of humans is something I'd want to be smug about.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by shepherdjerred on Saturday December 10, 2022 @01:03AM (#33930338)
That sounds rather misanthropic.

I don't want touchscreens in a car. I don't want my UI to change. That doesn't change the fact that many people do. Companies build for what customers want, not what engineers want. And even then, many (maybe even most) engineers would align with the average customer.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by Espressosaurus on Saturday December 10, 2022 @01:05PM (#33934950)
Except touchscreens are a clear danger to the driver due to the attention they pull away from the road.

Controls for the driver need to be physical, full stop.

There's more than just driver preference at play here; there's physical usability and its impact on safety, and that should override expectations people have with tablets.

We're flying around with 2 ton missiles, it's best we treat them with the appropriate respect.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by yreg on Saturday December 10, 2022 @06:34PM (#33938227)
For what it's worth, you can also use voice control.

Or you can put the Tesla on autopilot for the few seconds while fiddling with the touch screen, which (to me) feels much more safer than e.g. messing with a physical radio in a car without such assistence features.

(I'm not arguing with you, in fact I mostly agree with you.)

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by shepherdjerred on Saturday December 10, 2022 @08:16PM (#33938933)
> Except touchscreens are a clear danger to the driver due to the attention they pull away from the road.

Are there studies proving this?

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by Espressosaurus on Sunday December 11, 2022 @12:47AM (#33940463)
https://www.wardsauto.com/industry/distraction-study-calls-o...

https://www.thestar.com/autos/2022/05/28/touchscreens-are-co...

"Of the 30 different vehicles tested from 18 different brands, not a single vehicle from the study produced a low level of demand for the driver’s attention. Seven vehicles tested produced moderate demand, while 23 generated a high or very high demand. In fact, the study found drivers distracted, with their eyes completely off the road for as long as 40 seconds at certain times.

The concentration of critical functions being housed within a centre touchscreen becomes even more problematic given the lack of any feedback they offer, forcing drivers to look at the screen to confirm activation. Industry research has shown that it’s significantly easier to locate a physical control than hunting through sub-menus, as tactile or haptic feedback lets drivers develop muscle memory for key controls."

And it's an editorial but I fully agree with its conclusions:

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39304/why-im-done-pretending-t...

I'm a fan of Mazda's use of a dial for control when the vehicle is moving. Touchscreens are stupid if the driver has to use them.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by spaceman_2020 on Saturday December 10, 2022 @01:31PM (#33935259)
I understand that part - but why have touchscreens for core functionalities that won't change?

Like switching the AC on/off. You can hide away all the complex thermostat settings in the touchscreen but at least give me a physical AC button.

Saw the new Rivian and it has touchscreen controls for moving the AC vents around! What could ever change in the near future that moving the AC vents needs a feature upgrade?

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by yreg on Saturday December 10, 2022 @06:29PM (#33938189)
>touchscreen controls for moving the AC vents around

Tesla has the same and it has changed the UI for AC operation in the past. To be clear, I'm not convincing people that it is a good thing and I understand the frustration. But I personally like how the car changes, the same way I like how iOS changes.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by jackmott42 on Friday December 09, 2022 @06:15PM (#33927766)
It isn't just EVs, it is all new cars.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by letmevoteplease on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:15PM (#33927104)
The other electric semis have half the range.

https://twitter.com/TheEVuniverse/status/1599487909156880384

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by rootusrootus on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:27PM (#33927230)
Due to battery size, or aero?
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by chipsa on Saturday December 10, 2022 @02:58PM (#33936209)
From that link, it looks like the answer is yes. It’s both.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by osrec on Saturday December 10, 2022 @04:49AM (#33931331)
I imagine it's primarily driven by battery size.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by xeromal on Friday December 09, 2022 @08:04PM (#33928627)
The tweet you're replying to has battery sizes.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by rootusrootus on Friday December 09, 2022 @04:51PM (#33926833)
> A lot of Tesla vehicles feel like they value form over function.

As far as I can tell, that would be all of them. And if rumors are true, Tesla might be about to escalate that to the next level with their bread-and-butter cars. Brave, or stupid, ask in a year.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by NegativeK on Friday December 09, 2022 @07:28PM (#33928363)
The 3 is the most functional car I've ever had. It's stripped away all of the repetitive and unnecessary stuff I had to do when I'd sit down in a car. Yes, it's made accessing buttons more difficult, but those are (personally) all buttons for things that I don't need to touch while I'm driving.

That said, I'm not sure I'd buy it again due to (effectively) political bullshit. And the choices for this semi do look like they're the opposite end of usability compared to the 3/Y.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by servercobra on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:16PM (#33927105)
What rumors are you talking about?
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by rootusrootus on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:28PM (#33927244)
That they're going to put the yoke on the Model 3/Y and remove the gear stalk. Like they did on the Model S.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by yreg on Friday December 09, 2022 @07:46PM (#33928492)
Afaik the rumour[0] is a Semi wheel[1], not a Model S wheel.

Would be surprised to see the yoke on TM3/Y, since the only purposes of that thing are to make TMS/X "cooler" and to make it easier to see the the display which TM3/Y lack.

[0] - https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1084/tesla-s-2023-model-3-...

[1] - https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/tesla-s...

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by jonathankoren on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:52PM (#33927497)
Oh god. You can’t even turn that wheel all they way around to park, but hey! F1 is cool, and they don’t have a wheel.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by kelnos on Friday December 09, 2022 @06:15PM (#33927759)
> A lot of Tesla vehicles feel like they value form over function.

I generally find Teslas to be pretty unattractive from the form perspective. Body-wise, the Model 3 looks too "tall" to me from the back. The interior doesn't look spartan to me, it looks empty in a cheap sort of way. For the models where the touchscreen is on a mount rather than embedded in the dash, it looks bolted-on rather than designed.

Sure, these things are subjective, but I don't really think Teslas look all that nice, inside or out. My feeling is that much of the drooling over Tesla aesthetics is Musk's version of the Jobs Realty Distortion Field. Sure, early Tesla models had body designs way better than any other EV out there, but other manufacturers are catching up, and IMO the Model 3 is a step back, aesthetics-wise, from the Model S.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by pclmulqdq on Friday December 09, 2022 @08:56PM (#33928983)
The model 3 is designed to be cheap. It's designed to be the first "luxury" car that someone would buy, before they understand what a real car interior for a $40,000+ car is like.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by nephanth on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:18PM (#33927125)
I mean, a lot of car buyers value form over function
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by Dah00n on Friday December 09, 2022 @06:12PM (#33927725)
But likely 0 out of 1000 that buy semis.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by _ph_ on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:09PM (#33927035)
Depends on hat you consider "function". All Tesla vehicles are very aerodynamic. That means of course a bit less "practical" body shapes. Like lower headroom towards the back. So the question is, do you define functional as the most easy to use design, or the most efficient design? Efficiency does mean higher range, which is important for electrical vehicles.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by hn_throwaway_99 on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:14PM (#33927088)
Has nothing to do with the body shape. 2 simple examples:

1. I don't think I've heard anyone (who doesn't work at Tesla) ever say anything positive about the driving yoke.

2. Using touch screens for everything. Obviously touchscreens have the benefit of allowing the UI to be reconfigurable, but other companies have done a much better job of having important physical buttons/controls where it makes sense.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by skunkworker on Friday December 09, 2022 @08:27PM (#33928809)
I've driven a friends Plaid with a yoke, I was surprised that it felt more like a yoke on top of regular steering column rather than a yoke from a kart or something that had progressive steering. Having to do hand over hand in order to turn tightly was very odd to use.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by servercobra on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:18PM (#33927135)
I haven't read many people who actually have a car with the yolk have anything negative to say about it. Most of the comments I've seen are "yeah it was weird to get used to, now I like it" with a couple "I returned the car".

Agreed it could use a few physical buttons (but not many, voice control + the steering wheel controls are the majority of my usage). They also really need a new lead UI designer.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by nyrikki on Friday December 09, 2022 @09:37PM (#33929244)
Yoke steering wheel fundamentally interferes with skid recovery.

a few moments in a skid monster or on a skid pad will show you why hand over hand is the only way to maintain control.

It is the same reason steering wheel knobs are a bad idea unless you have physical requirements that require one.

The yoke steering wheel is only a few lawsuits away from being a historical novelty.

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by _ph_ on Saturday December 10, 2022 @04:46AM (#33931323)
In the context of the discussion, I considered "function" to be referring to the body shape. The points you name are a different discussion. But most Teslas don't have a yoke. That is so far limited to the Model S.
Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by jsight on Friday December 09, 2022 @05:28PM (#33927248)
I watched the yoke thing pretty closely. The positives that I've heard all center around the turn signals. Apparently a lot of people get used to them and actually like the touch buttons! A surprising number prefer them! TBH, this kind of shocked me, but watching them use it makes it make sense.

The horn button gets universally negative reviews. The yoke shape itself is more mixed, but I don't think I've run into anyone who'd prefer it over a round one. It more mixed between "I hate it" and "its ok". :)

Re:The Tesla Semi cab from the practical POV of someone who ... by jsight on Saturday December 10, 2022 @11:24PM (#33940056)
I think its safe to say that the downvoters have never used one, lol.