News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by rednerrus on Thursday November 17, 2022 @09:27PM (#33649087)
If I'm giving Elon the benefit of the doubt, A. he's intelligent B. He has 20+ years of corporate experience running companies, I would assume that there was some method to this madness. If I had to guess, he came in with the assumption that forces in the company would be hostile to him based on their beliefs. In order to weed those forces out, he engineered some of this madness to shake those people out. Unfortunately it seems like it may be backfiring.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by photoGrant on Thursday November 17, 2022 @09:38PM (#33649199)
Yeah, he's said this so many times it's a bore. He deletes. First. After deleting 'LAST'.

So he's doing exactly as we all should expect, he's literally said it. I used to delete last Now I delete first.

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by brookst on Thursday November 17, 2022 @09:32PM (#33649135)
I try to leave the “it looks crazy but it’s all part of the master plan that will eventually be revealed as brilliant” stuff to Qanon.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by nonethewiser on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:31PM (#33650335)
He has been nothing but transparent about wanting to gut the company. It's just his plainly communicated plan. There is no conspiracy here.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by noobermin on Thursday November 17, 2022 @10:14PM (#33649578)
I'm amazed at how naive some of the people are here. Why not just accept what you're seeing with your own two eyes? Why look for an alternate explanation?
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by Zpalmtree on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:25PM (#33650286)
Twitter is still online. Where's the huge fire everyone is talking about?
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by __warlord__ on Friday November 18, 2022 @01:51AM (#33651250)
75-ish% of people left/got fired... is that not enough fire?
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by nomel on Friday November 18, 2022 @02:34AM (#33651516)
75% cut was clearly communicated to investors: https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-twitter-inc-technology-...
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by onion2k on Friday November 18, 2022 @02:51AM (#33651663)
It's likely he wamted to have some say in which 75%. I doubt he planned to axe entire teams that were critical to running the company all at once.

But then again, it's Elon, so who knows.

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by Belphemur on Friday November 18, 2022 @07:42AM (#33653773)
I mean, if he takes the same approach to people as to microservices...

Cut it before understanding what it does, I don't think anything good is going to come from this.

Remember, cutting off the MFA microservice ?

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by onion2k on Friday November 18, 2022 @08:26AM (#33654238)
Remember, cutting off the MFA microservice?

I strongly suspect that was a case of switching off something that few people realized was required by for MFA service to operate. That speaks to poor comms, poor docs, and poor understanding of the systems (by the people who were still around.) "Chesterton's Fence" says you shouldn't be turning off stuff you don't understand, but if it looked OK to turn it off, but it wasn't, then that's actually an indictment of the poor engineering practises that Elon claims are rampant around Twitter. Rather than showing Elon to be an idiot it might prove his point.

But we're not in Twitter, so we can't know. What I would say is that if everything was well signposted that the service was critical then I doubt Elon would have recklessly ordered it should be turned off regardless. He's not that bad. It smells of bad documentation to me.

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by CodeMage on Friday November 18, 2022 @07:05PM (#33664866)
In the hypothetical fantasy scenario in which I'm assuming leadership of a company that I claim is plagued by poor engineering practices -- practices which include bad documentation -- the last thing I would want to do is order people to turn off stuff without making sure that the stuff they're turning off is mission critical. Hell, I would do my best to make sure I don't issue orders that could even be misconstrued as that.

But hey, maybe that's why I'm just an engineer without any interest of making the switch to the "leadership" ladder, and not a CEO.

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by whermans on Friday November 18, 2022 @06:43AM (#33653290)
Twitter won't automagically stay online. A complex system needs dedicated and experienced engineers to maintain it, apply updates and troubleshoot issues, and that's if you're not actively developing new features.

So it will coast for a while before the wheels come off. Maybe performance will degrade, maybe media stops loading or your timeline won't refresh. Maybe none of that happens and a critical system deep down fails and it just stops. But Musk has all but ensured that Twitter in its current form cannot continue to function.

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by nonethewiser on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:29PM (#33650317)
I thought everyone agreed that this was what he was doing though? Deliberately destroying the entire culture of Twitter.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by lazide on Friday November 18, 2022 @01:50AM (#33651240)
Looks like he’s setting $44bln on fire to me.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by nonethewiser on Friday November 18, 2022 @10:12AM (#33655837)
He already said it's not a money making venture.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by lazide on Friday November 18, 2022 @10:46AM (#33656399)
There is a difference between watching a giant tire fire from a distance, and throwing $44bln of your own and investors money on said tire fire nominally to make it ‘better’.

If he gets himself under control and stops it from downward spiraling (including losing much of their existing advertiser revenue!) then he’s making some progress.

But right now, he seems to be throwing gasoline on it.

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by mrguyorama on Friday November 18, 2022 @11:33AM (#33657172)
The company that bought ours proved very clearly that you can destroy and dismantle workplace culture without burning down the entire company
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by poulpy123 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:34PM (#33650360)
The cult of Billionaires is something else
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by bmitc on Friday November 18, 2022 @10:15AM (#33655882)
Agreed. I have seen some disturbing stuff on Twitter where people say things like “why are you arguing with the smartest man alive?”, “this person invented modern rockets”, “you should just do what your boss says”, and more just complete falsehoods parroted by followers who seemingly have no upside to doing so. It’s weird and bothersome.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by roflyear on Friday November 18, 2022 @09:07AM (#33654876)
They're rich so they are different than us.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by jkestner on Friday November 18, 2022 @10:13AM (#33655844)
If x is powerful because they’re smart and work hard, I can become powerful because I’m smart and work hard. If x is powerful because they were born rich and got lucky, I… don’t have much control over whether I become powerful.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by nomel on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:17PM (#33650208)
As some evidence, a desire for a 75% cut was widely reported:

https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-twitter-inc-technology-...

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by inerte on Thursday November 17, 2022 @11:40PM (#33650415)
I also agree he's a good (master?) business men.

But did he have to be so cruel? Post this picture https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1592618665933156352 while 5k people lost their jobs? And all the other stuff... I mean... it's one thing to "tell it like it is", which is a trait a lot of people admire. But he's just doing a bunch of stuff that deep down only abominable human beings would think and let alone act on it.

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by pjc50 on Friday November 18, 2022 @06:39AM (#33653248)
"The cruelty is the point".

There's an increasingly blunt divide these days between people who think cruelty is a good signal because it's in some way "realistic", and people who think avoidable suffering is bad and should be avoided. This is almost exactly the "woke"/"antiwoke" split.

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by notacoward on Friday November 18, 2022 @08:54AM (#33654694)
Thank you for making this point. It's basically confusing correlation with causation, or even reversing causation. Cargo cult thinking. Positive long term change often causes shorter term harm to some people, and this causes shorter term harm to some people, so this must be positive long term change. Poking at a wound, or exercising to overload, precisely because it hurts, because the hurt has become overly associated with progress. Some people make the error innocently. Others use it as an excuse, and make up fancy terms like "technocracy" (Musk's grandfather) or "longtermism" (Musk himself) to dress up the rationalization. Really, it's about essentializing harm itself.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by inerte on Friday November 18, 2022 @11:19AM (#33656933)
Thank you both pjc50 and notacoward because I heard the phrase "cruelty is the point" and I've always interpreted as the person doing the cruelty enjoys what they do, as if the cruelty by itself is the goal, not a means to an end.

This might map with the idea how the military first needs to break a person to rebuild them in something that's capable of doing what society has taught us to never do (namely, kill others), and more strongly to what I've been increasingly hearing lately in the business world which is "antifragility".

In no way I am equating killing with building resilient systems, but I can see a thread connecting them when someone thinks that cruelty can produce better and improved new behaviors or systems.

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by notacoward on Friday November 18, 2022 @01:44PM (#33659782)
You're completely welcome and I'm happy that you saw some value in it. Your military-training analogy is good too. "That which does not kill us makes us stronger" is a powerful concept, but comes with many caveats that are usually overlooked. It is the ability to heal and learn and adapt that is most essential, not the need to challenge, and unfortunately the Nietzschean expression obscures that. The ways in which his ideas were later used should also serve as a stark warning of how dangerous that particular line of thinking can be.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by lazide on Friday November 18, 2022 @01:49AM (#33651229)
Right, it’s all 4D chess instead of the more obvious answer - he’s overwhelmed and embarrassed, and like many workaholic insecure bosses, it lashing out at folks and cutting his own throat?
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by RavingGoat on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:01AM (#33651732)
He is playing Candyland while everyone else is playing chess
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by wstuartcl on Friday November 18, 2022 @04:25AM (#33652312)
At least trying to take the wrapper off the box -- not sure if he has figured out how to play yet..

Word on the street is full teams (including most of infra) have clicked "no". He may be in a state where the site can't even stay up as he coasts on employee fumes.

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by Fricken on Friday November 18, 2022 @04:12AM (#33652219)
Unlike with Tesla and SpaceX, nobody at Twitter signed up under the auspices that taking it in the ass from Elon will help humanity get to Mars.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by spaceman_2020 on Friday November 18, 2022 @04:30AM (#33652362)
Twitter's headcount doubled between 2018 and 2022. They added literally 2500+ people in the two pandemic years itself.

50% layoffs gets them back to their 2018 headcount.

As far as I can remember, Twitter was functioning fine in 2018 as well. And it certainly didn't grow enough or add enough features to warrant 50% headcount increase in two pandemic years.

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by mrguyorama on Friday November 18, 2022 @11:38AM (#33657246)
Yes but which 50% left matters. Engineers in a big complicated system like that are NOT replaceable and NOBODY properly manages their bus-factor. If you spent the past five years basically babying the twitter infra and making sure it stays working and understanding it and building on it and convincing yourself at night that it's okay how stupid and poorly engineered it is because it gets the job done and now elon comes in and spends his time calling you incompetent and overpaid and offers you a 3 month severance, you aren't staying.
Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by spaceman_2020 on Friday November 18, 2022 @03:14PM (#33661373)
My take is that there's a personality type that sees Elon hyping up the "hardcore-ness" and WANTS to get in.

Remember that some people willingly put themselves through extremely situations - obsctacle races, bootcamps, etc. 80hrs/week doesn't bother them. Work-life balance isn't something they care about. The David Goggins types.

Elon has built his career seeking out such people. Couple all of this "hardcore" talk with some elaborate BS about "Twitter's mission" (and he IS an excellent hype man) and I can totally see certain type of engineers jumping through hoops just to get in.

Re:Twitter alerted employees all office buildings closed and... by caskstrength on Friday November 18, 2022 @07:25AM (#33653611)
> Unfortunately it seems like it may be backfiring.

Why do you consider that "unfortunate"?