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Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by encoderer on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @03:59PM (#33630485)
Sort of off topic but the war in Ukraine has brought to my attention that we actually fire missiles with giant miles-long extension cords. Missiles. With extension cords.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by sidewndr46 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:05PM (#33630579)
I think those are just for control & telemetry. The actual missile has a battery on it usually.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by mjevans on Thursday November 17, 2022 @01:00AM (#33635520)
Hardlines sound much harder to hack, except literally. Which brings chain-shot (I think they did this in cannons at some point) back to mind.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by hnlmorg on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:06PM (#33630587)
Anyone got a source for this? I’d be interested to learn more
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by nuccy on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:12PM (#33630692)
Those are wire-guided missiles, usually used to destroy tanks and other armed vehicles. The length of the wire is just few kilometers. The wire is needed to actually tell the rocket where to steer [1].

More modern approach to anti-tank missiles are those with lasers being used for highlighting the target [2], while the missile has a battery and a camera to find the spot. The other approach is to do on-the-fly image recognition [3].

Edit: interesting fact: DART space craft sent by NASA to hit an asteroid used a missile derived technology to recognize the image and steer itself into the target, since direct control from Earth was not possible due to communication lag [4] (also try googling "dart mission" to see google's doodle on the topic).

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire-guided_missile

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser-guided_bomb

3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin

4. https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-confirms-dart-missio...

Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by macintux on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @11:15PM (#33634890)
> The length of the wire is just few kilometers.

“just”

Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by modeless on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:07PM (#33630602)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire-guided_missile

I think the TOW missile is the most prominent example.

Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by adwww on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:09PM (#33631516)
MILAN is very slightly older and probably just as widely used - especially out of US.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by stavros on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:24PM (#33630860)
Wait, what? Why?
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by NwtnsMthd on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:29PM (#33630930)
- Can't be jammed

- Simple

- No radio frequency indication of an incoming missile.

There must be other reasons as well.

Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by stavros on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:34PM (#33631000)
I agree with the first and last point, but reliably unrolling a 4km wire while going 500 kmh cannot be simple.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by MarkMarine on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:16PM (#33631634)
They seem to work quite effectively, I've never seen a TOW fail. Downside is you need to maintain visual guidance of the missile through it's whole flight path.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by stavros on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @06:09PM (#33632304)
While I don't doubt you, I will say that, technically, I've never seen a TOW fail either.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by SketchySeaBeast on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:19PM (#33631680)
I'm envision that classic "look down and see a spool of rope unspooling around your leg right before you disappear out of frame" shtick.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by supergeek on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:42PM (#33631950)
Anyone involved in RC aircraft will gladly tell you that getting a stable radio link for video and control past 4km is anything but simple.

Even a basic analog video signal is orders of magnitude more data than what you'd be transmitting in a phone call.

Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by stavros on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @06:09PM (#33632296)
Luckily, I am involved in RC aircraft. If my 5mm, $15 ELRS receiver can do 13 km without breaking a sweat, imagine what military-grade technology can do.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by baud147258 on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @08:41PM (#33633822)
TOW missiles date back to 60s-70s, so I don't think they had access to tech that good at the time; for more modern efforts the Javelin (from the 90s) has equivalent range and no wires.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by stavros on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @08:55PM (#33633925)
That makes sense, thanks. Isn't the Javelin unguided (or self-guided), though? This means it doesn't need wires not because communication with it is wireless, but because it doesn't need to communicate at all.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by baud147258 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @04:37AM (#33636726)
ah, true, I was misremembering how it did work, I though there was some guidance done by the shooter after the missile had been fired.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by encoderer on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @05:44PM (#33631982)
Isn’t it crazy how much effort we still spend as a race trying to kill each other.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by norvvryo on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @07:39PM (#33633306)
As long as resources are finite, conflict is inevitable. It would be foolish not to prepare for it.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by bpodgursky on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @10:10PM (#33634461)
I think you have to stretch to attribute the Ukraine war to a resource competition. It's about cultural hegemony.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by quickthrower2 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @12:23AM (#33635304)
Or cartel like behaviour? Leader needs to look tough to survive.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by refurb on Thursday November 17, 2022 @12:24AM (#33635308)
Donbas region is a major industrial area for the past century.

No surprise Russia wants it.

Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by bpodgursky on Thursday November 17, 2022 @01:26PM (#33643318)
Russia has controlled a substantial portion of the Donbas for 8 years and has simply let it rot. There's no investment or utilization of that industry.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by refurb on Thursday November 17, 2022 @08:24PM (#33648567)
“The Donbas represents one of the largest coal reserves in Ukraine, with estimated reserves of 60 billion tonnes of coal.”
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by pifm_guy on Friday November 18, 2022 @04:26AM (#33652319)
It's only worth investing once you've really secured it against the other side retaking it.

I don't think the Donbass was ever secure against being retaken. Hence no investment.

It's still strategically valuable, because you're still taking resources from the enemy.

Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by Sakos on Friday November 18, 2022 @08:12AM (#33654062)
It also wasn't officially Russian territory. They were still playing the game of "these are separatists that just want to join Russia", so it wouldn't make sense to invest anything in what's really been an active warzone for 8 years. Officially annexing Donbas was probably always the long-term plan from the beginning, but for some reason that turned into "fuck it, let's take Ukraine instead".
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by Sakos on Friday November 18, 2022 @08:10AM (#33654056)
It also reduces supply of many resources (for example noble gases since Ukraine is the world's biggest exporter and Russia is the second), leading to higher prices which Russia would profit from (neon prices went up 600% around 2014). In the current situation, they also didn't expect to have to wage a year or longer war or deal with crippling Western sanctions.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by Sakos on Thursday November 17, 2022 @06:23AM (#33637429)
The eastern part of Ukraine has vast resource deposits that are worth trillions. What makes you think resource competition isn't a part of it?
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by kridsdale2 on Thursday November 17, 2022 @05:01PM (#33646467)
The original reason for invasion (2014) was access to the sea. Logistics are crucial for an economy.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by goodpoint on Thursday November 17, 2022 @03:57AM (#33636493)
This is plain false.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by jedc on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @04:45PM (#33631158)
Also torpedos (for example, from submarines)
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by nuccy on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @06:36PM (#33632609)
Never heard about wire-controlled torpedoes before, but indeed this makes total sense. Radio waves don't travel far in water. There are quite some spectacular systems built to contact submarines underwater [1] operating in 3-300Hz radio frequencies but antennas are kilometers long consuming megawatts. Wired-controlled torpedoes would be able to easily get target guidance from the submarine. Since torpedoes don't move fast (unlike missiles) un-spooling and long distance wires should not be a problem (wires can have neutral buoyancy).

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines

Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by 2rsf on Thursday November 17, 2022 @06:10AM (#33637350)
The key words are "still being used", wire guided missiles are actually an old technology. Israel suffered from Russian Saggers fired by Egyptians in 1972, a missile produced in 1963 and it wasn't the first.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by Sakos on Thursday November 17, 2022 @06:24AM (#33637435)
I always wonder what happens to the wire afterwards.
Re:Electric ferry uses a long extension cord [video] by pifm_guy on Friday November 18, 2022 @04:23AM (#33652297)
I assume the wire is very very thin to keep it light.

That means it probably breaks down in the environment after a few years - with the time mostly depending on what type of enamel it's coated in.