As for V, it delivers quite well for a language at such an early stage and has a growing community. IMHO, it's a great language.
> V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them...
This comment is nonsense, in addition to devoid of any proof. By the way, hope you are not out to spam 3 year old links and self-serving advertisements from a "sleeper account", as will just confirm trolling. For anybody that has actually followed the language, the developers and contributors have put in tremendous effort and work to deliver, to include near weekly releases (for years).
Detractors of the language act like V should not be allowed to develop, and should have been instantly production ready from day 1. That's insane, and is not how languages progress nor how language development works. Languages, if you don't know, take many years to develop, lots of issue fixing, and the creation of enough native libraries where they can be considered mature enough by the majority for production quality use.
In contrast, Zig, the language you mentioned and appear to be an advocate of, came out in 2016 (3 years before V). Zig still is not 1.0 and according to their people will not get there until at least 2025 (if not later). Where in comparison, V has been on a faster pace of development, to include has a broader scope of what it's trying to provide and accomplish.
> If V was truthful like Zig...
This is a nonsensical statement. Languages do not lie, people do. V is not just 1 person, it has hundreds of developers and contributors (588 and counting). In fact, more than Zig, which is an older language.
> ...it would be able to create a foundation.
Again, nonsense. Whatever Zig does, the developers of V are under no obligation whatsoever to do. Zig did not create a foundation until 2020 (I believe), which is 4 years after they started development. V is not yet 4 years old. So give it at least that much time to decide. Furthermore, many languages do not have a foundation. The main developers of V are not just Americans, so we don't know their situations, laws in their countries, nor can they be expected to follow the same steps. Because something benefits your group, does not mean it benefits all groups. People should be allowed take the path which best fits their circumstances.
> ...call its vast number of libraries...
What in the world are you talking about? Zig is a minimalist language that doesn't have any vast libraries like that either. Zig does have interop with C, but so does V, to include a C2V transpiler (and a Go2V transpiler for good measure). There is a good argument that you shouldn't have any expectations for V (as a language in general), that you don't have for Zig.
Listen, you love Zig, OK nothing wrong with that. But, you don't have to run around bashing other programming languages or spreading misinformation about them.
https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23
https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-03
https://xeiaso.net/blog/vlang-update-2020-06-17
They were doing very level-headed reviews of the language at that time, found that the claims were mostly unsubstantiated, and then got blocked by the V team.
That did not inspire confidence at all, as you might imagine. I can completely understand OP when they are saying "V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them and people lost trust." -- that was my view too.
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Again, it might be better now. The V team might have delivered in the meantime. But I can definitely see where OP is coming from.
Looks like you used one of your sleeper troll accounts, as I predicted, and then unleashed the usual self-serving 3 year old spam links for Xe/Xena/Christine to get views for the Patreon and resume.
By the way, V is in beta. Those 3 year old reviews and links to them, are for an old alpha version of the language that is no longer relevant. Even so, the reviews were full of lies and smears. V is clearly not vaporware.
Anyway, the very obvious and predictable troll behavior is against the spirit of HN, and quite abhorrent.
> ...and then got blocked by the V team.
This appears to be more trolling, and just distortions or lies, as a setup to unload more spam and misinformation. Even if you were blocked, why don't you move on to some other programming language? Why act like a "jilted lover" and keep unlocking troll accounts to attack whenever you see the word V, positive comments about it, or supporters?
Go be happy with the programming language that you love. Move on, be happy with Zig, Go, or whatever. No need to keep being the angry ex.
> Again, it might be better now. The V team might have delivered in the meantime.
Of course V is better now, than 3 years ago. The language is in a constant state of improvement, with hundreds of contributors involved, and near weekly release for years.
Thus, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to be spamming reviews and smears against the language from 3 years ago and an alpha version of the language that nobody uses.
> But I can definitely see where OP is coming from.
Well, if that poster was one of your sleeper troll accounts, then I can see that. But, when it comes to what was stated, it was mostly nonsensical, just popping Zig into the conversation, and attempted smears at a rival language.
You on the other hand immediately label me as a sleeper account and a troll, for only mentioning a few links to a webpage. Although I can understand being defensive by default if you get trolled a lot, I don't think this is a good way to win people over. It certainly is off-putting to me.
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But anyway, content related: did Xe/Xena/Christine lie in their blog posts at that time? I've read other blog posts by them and those generally seem to be level headed, well written blog posts -- not spam or anything.
Next to checking out the Vlang's website, those blog posts were my only exposure to the language at the time -- as you can imagine for a new language.
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>> ...and then got blocked by the V team.
> This appears to be more trolling, and just distortions or lies, as a setup to unload more spam links and misinformation.
Is the image in the tweet in the last post not correct? That Xe got blocked by @v_language? Or is that not the official Twitter account?
You have to remember, I'm just an outside observer -- and all I see is a person testing the claims a language does, finding they are mostly unsubstantiated, and getting blocked in the process.
Additionally, your language constantly slips, as if you are the person who owns the website and claims to have got banned. Maybe you are that person, maybe not, but the trolling is definitive.
Lastly, you are obviously trolling, and attempting to pull me or others into the game more deeply so that you can unload more smears, misinformation, have V (or rival language) containing threads moved down by admins, or introduce troll links. My response to that, is the game is very old, degrades the quality of HN, and just move on and love whatever language. Stop trying to troll V so hard.
You seem way too defensive to have any useful conversation with, so I won't bother any more. Good luck with vlang!
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27442724
I wouldn't call the author an objective reviewer of the language.
Also even in this thread there were people spreading lies about the language:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33544205
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33544576
who have a history of spreading lies about V that goes back years:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20765490
My advice is - check out the language and make up your own mind. In the end this is a tool, not a football club.
> the author of the blog you shared has openly said "V is something that should be ignored until it dies into obscurity":
I didn't know this -- that's very harsh, and I don't agree at all. I see that that comment was made after the reviewing blog posts, however. I can get that the relation between V and them has soured.
> Also even in this thread there were people spreading lies about the language: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33544205
That's the one I initially replied to, sharing my view as an outside observer. It would probably serve V well to handle such popular blog posts in some way. Like put up a blog post refuting the points in the article, and then link to that or something. Something to undo the damage to the language's image by those posts, and (re-)inspire confidence.
The other way is probably to be "so good they can't ignore you". That would be great, always good to have more great tools.
> My advice is - check out the language and make up your own mind. In the end this is a tool, not a football club.
I completely agree -- and people should try it for themselves. I guess my point is mostly that if the community's exposure to a language is those blog posts, they won't be inclined to try it. And if those blog posts don't get handled in a graceful and confidence inspiring way, the community won't "update" its view of the language.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31793554
(Ctrl+F amedvednikov)
But I agree 100% - having a blog post that refutes all the claims in one place would be very useful.
Occasionally used "sleeper accounts" pop out of the woodwork and post links to the Xe/Xena/Christine website (and less often the newer and related mawfig blog). That's how I was able to predict your appearance, before you posted the Xe/Xena/Christine links.
Then if anybody suspects or digs into the person spamming the usual smear links, the account feigns innocence. It's like an arsonist using the same method to burn down houses in the area for several years, then pretending he/she doesn't know what people are talking about, as they suspect and catch them.
And by the way, this MO is not just on HN, as this tactic can be observed on other websites as well that are posting links to the Xe/Xena/Christine site, and at the expense of Vlang and/or in the mist of a troll party smearing the language and developers. Except, where they feel comfortable (at not getting banned), such trolls shed any pretense or coyness. They totally discharge all kinds of unasked for vitriol, for a language they supposedly never have used, don't use, or don't care about.
Which brings up the obvious question, of why then do they care so much and post such trash (like spamming smear links on any Vlang related thread they find)? Clearly, a possible motive for doing such uncalled for things, is if they are coming from a rival language and feel insecure about their position to compete just on their merits.
> It would probably serve V well to handle such popular blog posts in some way. Like put up a blog post refuting the points in the article, and then link to that or something.
No, because you want Vlang developers and users to engage in your despicable and deplorable tactics. And such troll activities and smearing are ridiculous spectacles that demonstrate insecurity and childishness.
What members of the Vlang community can and arguably should do, is expose those perpetuating these low level troll games. Furthermore, many outside observers are also noticing the tactics of your group. The more such a group engages in smearing other languages and creators, the more people will realize what they are doing and shun them.
> Something to undo the damage to the language's image by those posts, and (re-)inspire confidence.
The attempt to do damage and smearing is clearly being perpetuated by specific rivals and competitors of Vlang. It becomes more and more obvious all the time, thus all the clues are leading back to the source.
I have been nothing but civil and open-minded, I have not smeared vlang in any way, I have merely been asking questions as an outside observer.
You, on the other hand, have been aggressively defensive, and have been projecting an almost paranoid "everything and everyone is against vlang" attitude. I almost start thinking that you are the one trolling me.
If not, I sincerely hope you will take a step back and assess the situation and yourself -- and try to relax a bit. No single programming language is worth getting this wound up about.
1) That would be an obvious lie. You posted 3 links (not 1, not even 2, but 3) to the Xe/Xena/Christine website. The intent is to smear, disrupt, and spread negative misinformation.
2) On almost any Vlang related thread of significance, see how often and what type of accounts are posting the Xe/Xena/Christine website.
hn.algolia.com may assist you.
> But I can definitely see where OP is coming from
As in, you agree with rmanolis, who made very obvious smears and lies about V. And is an advocate of Zig.
Let's refresh your short memory, as you are "so innocent", as to what rmanolis typed.
"V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them..." --rmanolis
"If V was truthful like Zig..." --rmanolis
But to bring home the point, after you posted the smear links (which take conscious effort to collect them together), you add this gem with them.
> I can completely understand OP when they are saying "V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them and people lost trust." -- that was my view too.
Because of your short memory issue, allow me to remind you, that last part was definitively you.
"-- that was my view too.", as in you agree with rmanolis, the one clearly smearing Vlang and an advocate of Zig. And that was after you posted the V is vaporware smear link.
> No single programming language is worth getting this wound up about.
Excuse me, who is so narrowly focused about a language?
This thread is about the Zip Function, not just Vlang, and has 4 other programming languages to talk about.
Yet, you chose to target and smear Vlang specifically, while mentioning nothing about Zip functions or the other languages.
Hey suprfnk, are you alright?
Instead of trolling, maybe engage in some other hobby. I'm done with you, so truly feel free to assess the situation and yourself. It might be good for you to take a step back and relax a bit.
If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
By now most of the HN know the reality of Vlang, and just ignore all the post/comments about it. Before Vlang warriors go bananas, don't bother responding, this is my last comment on vlang.
For new users: Vlang has constantly over promised and under delivered, most of the features they advertise don't work or works in a very limited scope. Not very old article dissecting their feature list: * Article: https://mawfig.github.io/2022/06/18/v-lang-in-2022.html * HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31793554
1) You are "projecting", what is your purpose and agenda.
That is your intent, as an obvious troll (who masquerades as a Rust advocate), that probably has multiple accounts or working in a concerted effort from an organization of a competing language.
2) Your agenda is very clear.
It is mainly attacks, flames, and unloading of spam on any posts or threads which mention or are concerning Vlang.
3) Your troll account should have been banned a while ago.
All of this is very clear by your disruptive flame war comment history, for all to see.
> Vlang warriors...
So PufPufPuf and jonathanstrange are also "Vlang warriors", for just casually mentioning and saying something positive about Vlang on a thread about it and multiple languages?
What actually is happening, is the mere mention of Vlang can cause various rivals and competitors to engage with troll accounts to spam the name of their competing language (in this case Zig) and unload massive amounts of misinformation, propaganda, lies, and negative disruption on threads.
Notice how it is never initiated in the opposite direction. It is nearly always advocates of specific rival languages doing this, though they kind of and sloppily try to hide their affiliation, but often slip up as apparently they can't help themselves. Their activity consists of attacking or bashing Vlang (to include spamming the same negative propaganda links), when it is positively mentioned. This is very clear from HN's post history.
To include, this spamming or trolling activity by various evangelists or paid advocates of a certain language has gone over the top on the HN site, and is now on the radar of moderators (who have mentioning it).
You did it a whole bunch in this thread, unfortunately. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
This is the 3rd time in this thread this claim is getting repeated. From my previous comment:
"V has an online playground, a package manager, hot code reloading and a REPL whereas Zig doesn't even though Zig is twice as old."
If you can't provide examples of undelivered features, I'm going to have to say you're spreading lies.
Also literally in the HN thread you shared the author of V refuted the claims from the article.
Since your account seems clearly in that category, I need to ask you to stop posting about this, not just now but in the future. That's not taking a side about Vlang (I have no idea!) - it's just about the intended use of HN.
I think it would be better to engage in open, sincere, and civil discourse about the language -- instead of labelling people that raise questions or concerns as trolls with sleeper accounts.
¹it says some overflowing can still result in UB, but that's not what's happening here; also this warning was only added in July.
> V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them
This is wrong. V has an online playground, a package manager, hot code reloading and a REPL whereas Zig doesn't even though Zig is twice as old.
> If V was truthful like Zig, it would be able to create a foundation
Raising money doesn't lead to adoption, though. By this logic, C isn't truthful either since it doesn't have a foundation.
> Also a programming language will never be able to substitute another one if it is not able to call its vast number of libraries
How is this relevant? Both Zig and V can call C code and leverage C's ecosystem of libraries.
I'd say the languages you mention are substitutes according to the following mapping: