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Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by suprfnk on Thursday November 10, 2022 @10:16AM (#33547675)
I am not a "sleeper account". I posted a very calm and charitable take on my view, in it explaining that I understand OP's view. Nowhere did I smear the language, or troll, or do anything of the sort.

You on the other hand immediately label me as a sleeper account and a troll, for only mentioning a few links to a webpage. Although I can understand being defensive by default if you get trolled a lot, I don't think this is a good way to win people over. It certainly is off-putting to me.

-----

But anyway, content related: did Xe/Xena/Christine lie in their blog posts at that time? I've read other blog posts by them and those generally seem to be level headed, well written blog posts -- not spam or anything.

Next to checking out the Vlang's website, those blog posts were my only exposure to the language at the time -- as you can imagine for a new language.

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>> ...and then got blocked by the V team.

> This appears to be more trolling, and just distortions or lies, as a setup to unload more spam links and misinformation.

Is the image in the tweet in the last post not correct? That Xe got blocked by @v_language? Or is that not the official Twitter account?

You have to remember, I'm just an outside observer -- and all I see is a person testing the claims a language does, finding they are mostly unsubstantiated, and getting blocked in the process.

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by Tozen on Thursday November 10, 2022 @10:30AM (#33547873)
First, "sleeper account", refers to the rarely used account to setup introducing the spam links, not this account where you are professing your "innocence". The behavior is very obvious, and has been done on many threads where anybody mentions V or appears to be supporting the language. It comes off as a clear attempt to smear the language, while profiting off of it by mentioning a rival language, or linking to websites for views, Patreon, and resume.

Additionally, your language constantly slips, as if you are the person who owns the website and claims to have got banned. Maybe you are that person, maybe not, but the trolling is definitive.

Lastly, you are obviously trolling, and attempting to pull me or others into the game more deeply so that you can unload more smears, misinformation, have V (or rival language) containing threads moved down by admins, or introduce troll links. My response to that, is the game is very old, degrades the quality of HN, and just move on and love whatever language. Stop trying to troll V so hard.

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by suprfnk on Thursday November 10, 2022 @01:00PM (#33550511)
Haha, alright man. Still with the alt/sleeper account. Cool. I'm just some guy from the Netherlands trying to get a calm conversation going. I don't feel like any of my posts have been in any way inflammatory.

You seem way too defensive to have any useful conversation with, so I won't bother any more. Good luck with vlang!

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by 10241024 on Thursday November 10, 2022 @02:44PM (#33552029)
To give you some background on why your original post might've been considered inflammatory - the author of the blog you shared has openly said "V is something that should be ignored until it dies into obscurity":

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27442724

I wouldn't call the author an objective reviewer of the language.

Also even in this thread there were people spreading lies about the language:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33544205

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33544576

who have a history of spreading lies about V that goes back years:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20765490

My advice is - check out the language and make up your own mind. In the end this is a tool, not a football club.

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by suprfnk on Friday November 11, 2022 @02:54AM (#33558266)
Hey, thanks for the civil response!

> the author of the blog you shared has openly said "V is something that should be ignored until it dies into obscurity":

I didn't know this -- that's very harsh, and I don't agree at all. I see that that comment was made after the reviewing blog posts, however. I can get that the relation between V and them has soured.

> Also even in this thread there were people spreading lies about the language: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33544205

That's the one I initially replied to, sharing my view as an outside observer. It would probably serve V well to handle such popular blog posts in some way. Like put up a blog post refuting the points in the article, and then link to that or something. Something to undo the damage to the language's image by those posts, and (re-)inspire confidence.

The other way is probably to be "so good they can't ignore you". That would be great, always good to have more great tools.

> My advice is - check out the language and make up your own mind. In the end this is a tool, not a football club.

I completely agree -- and people should try it for themselves. I guess my point is mostly that if the community's exposure to a language is those blog posts, they won't be inclined to try it. And if those blog posts don't get handled in a graceful and confidence inspiring way, the community won't "update" its view of the language.

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by 10241024 on Friday November 11, 2022 @05:01AM (#33558873)
By the way usually when a hit piece about V starts circulating on HN, the author of V takes the time to refute the claims in the comments section:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31793554

(Ctrl+F amedvednikov)

But I agree 100% - having a blog post that refutes all the claims in one place would be very useful.

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by suprfnk on Friday November 11, 2022 @05:50AM (#33559167)
Ah, that's good to know! Will check it out.
Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by Tozen on Friday November 11, 2022 @05:09AM (#33558912)
It appears that you are convinced at how slick and cunning that you are (which oddly a competing language considered that a compliment and plus for adding to their organization). The mistake though, is more spamming of the smear links was totally uncalled for, and the game you are playing has been done several times before on numerous other Vlang threads on HN.

Occasionally used "sleeper accounts" pop out of the woodwork and post links to the Xe/Xena/Christine website (and less often the newer and related mawfig blog). That's how I was able to predict your appearance, before you posted the Xe/Xena/Christine links.

Then if anybody suspects or digs into the person spamming the usual smear links, the account feigns innocence. It's like an arsonist using the same method to burn down houses in the area for several years, then pretending he/she doesn't know what people are talking about, as they suspect and catch them.

And by the way, this MO is not just on HN, as this tactic can be observed on other websites as well that are posting links to the Xe/Xena/Christine site, and at the expense of Vlang and/or in the mist of a troll party smearing the language and developers. Except, where they feel comfortable (at not getting banned), such trolls shed any pretense or coyness. They totally discharge all kinds of unasked for vitriol, for a language they supposedly never have used, don't use, or don't care about.

Which brings up the obvious question, of why then do they care so much and post such trash (like spamming smear links on any Vlang related thread they find)? Clearly, a possible motive for doing such uncalled for things, is if they are coming from a rival language and feel insecure about their position to compete just on their merits.

> It would probably serve V well to handle such popular blog posts in some way. Like put up a blog post refuting the points in the article, and then link to that or something.

No, because you want Vlang developers and users to engage in your despicable and deplorable tactics. And such troll activities and smearing are ridiculous spectacles that demonstrate insecurity and childishness.

What members of the Vlang community can and arguably should do, is expose those perpetuating these low level troll games. Furthermore, many outside observers are also noticing the tactics of your group. The more such a group engages in smearing other languages and creators, the more people will realize what they are doing and shun them.

> Something to undo the damage to the language's image by those posts, and (re-)inspire confidence.

The attempt to do damage and smearing is clearly being perpetuated by specific rivals and competitors of Vlang. It becomes more and more obvious all the time, thus all the clues are leading back to the source.

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by suprfnk on Friday November 11, 2022 @05:55AM (#33559205)
Hey Tozen, are you alright? It might be good for you to take a step back and relax a bit.

I have been nothing but civil and open-minded, I have not smeared vlang in any way, I have merely been asking questions as an outside observer.

You, on the other hand, have been aggressively defensive, and have been projecting an almost paranoid "everything and everyone is against vlang" attitude. I almost start thinking that you are the one trolling me.

If not, I sincerely hope you will take a step back and assess the situation and yourself -- and try to relax a bit. No single programming language is worth getting this wound up about.

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by Tozen on Friday November 11, 2022 @06:49AM (#33559578)
> I have not smeared vlang in any way, I have merely been asking questions as an outside observer.

1) That would be an obvious lie. You posted 3 links (not 1, not even 2, but 3) to the Xe/Xena/Christine website. The intent is to smear, disrupt, and spread negative misinformation.

2) On almost any Vlang related thread of significance, see how often and what type of accounts are posting the Xe/Xena/Christine website.

hn.algolia.com may assist you.

> But I can definitely see where OP is coming from

As in, you agree with rmanolis, who made very obvious smears and lies about V. And is an advocate of Zig.

Let's refresh your short memory, as you are "so innocent", as to what rmanolis typed.

"V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them..." --rmanolis

"If V was truthful like Zig..." --rmanolis

But to bring home the point, after you posted the smear links (which take conscious effort to collect them together), you add this gem with them.

> I can completely understand OP when they are saying "V promised a lot of stuff as ready but has undelivered most of them and people lost trust." -- that was my view too.

Because of your short memory issue, allow me to remind you, that last part was definitively you.

"-- that was my view too.", as in you agree with rmanolis, the one clearly smearing Vlang and an advocate of Zig. And that was after you posted the V is vaporware smear link.

> No single programming language is worth getting this wound up about.

Excuse me, who is so narrowly focused about a language?

This thread is about the Zip Function, not just Vlang, and has 4 other programming languages to talk about.

Yet, you chose to target and smear Vlang specifically, while mentioning nothing about Zip functions or the other languages.

Hey suprfnk, are you alright?

Instead of trolling, maybe engage in some other hobby. I'm done with you, so truly feel free to assess the situation and yourself. It might be good for you to take a step back and relax a bit.

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by dang on Saturday November 12, 2022 @06:59PM (#33578510)
Please do not post flamewar comments to HN, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by gompertz on Thursday November 10, 2022 @01:21PM (#33550812)
Lol.. It's obvious you are 'super_flanker' based on your abbreviated username. A known V troll (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31801287). Reported. BTW... People are not as dumb as you seem to think. Next!
Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by super_flanker on Thursday November 10, 2022 @08:01PM (#33556058)
Congratulations! Vlang warriors have successfully pushed a potential new user away from Vlang again. One could say that you and tozen have done more reputation damage then Alex's over-promise/under-deliver saga.

By now most of the HN know the reality of Vlang, and just ignore all the post/comments about it. Before Vlang warriors go bananas, don't bother responding, this is my last comment on vlang.

For new users: Vlang has constantly over promised and under delivered, most of the features they advertise don't work or works in a very limited scope. Not very old article dissecting their feature list: * Article: https://mawfig.github.io/2022/06/18/v-lang-in-2022.html * HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31793554

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by Tozen on Thursday November 10, 2022 @10:43PM (#33557087)
> ...successfully pushed a potential new user away...

1) You are "projecting", what is your purpose and agenda.

That is your intent, as an obvious troll (who masquerades as a Rust advocate), that probably has multiple accounts or working in a concerted effort from an organization of a competing language.

2) Your agenda is very clear.

It is mainly attacks, flames, and unloading of spam on any posts or threads which mention or are concerning Vlang.

3) Your troll account should have been banned a while ago.

All of this is very clear by your disruptive flame war comment history, for all to see.

> Vlang warriors...

So PufPufPuf and jonathanstrange are also "Vlang warriors", for just casually mentioning and saying something positive about Vlang on a thread about it and multiple languages?

What actually is happening, is the mere mention of Vlang can cause various rivals and competitors to engage with troll accounts to spam the name of their competing language (in this case Zig) and unload massive amounts of misinformation, propaganda, lies, and negative disruption on threads.

Notice how it is never initiated in the opposite direction. It is nearly always advocates of specific rival languages doing this, though they kind of and sloppily try to hide their affiliation, but often slip up as apparently they can't help themselves. Their activity consists of attacking or bashing Vlang (to include spamming the same negative propaganda links), when it is positively mentioned. This is very clear from HN's post history.

To include, this spamming or trolling activity by various evangelists or paid advocates of a certain language has gone over the top on the HN site, and is now on the radar of moderators (who have mentioning it).

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by dang on Saturday November 12, 2022 @06:52PM (#33578462)
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. Regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are, it's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

You did it a whole bunch in this thread, unfortunately. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by 10241024 on Friday November 11, 2022 @05:50AM (#33559170)
> Vlang has constantly over promised and under delivered, most of the features they advertise don't work or works in a very limited scope.

This is the 3rd time in this thread this claim is getting repeated. From my previous comment:

"V has an online playground, a package manager, hot code reloading and a REPL whereas Zig doesn't even though Zig is twice as old."

If you can't provide examples of undelivered features, I'm going to have to say you're spreading lies.

Also literally in the HN thread you shared the author of V refuted the claims from the article.

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by dang on Saturday November 12, 2022 @06:51PM (#33578450)
We don't allow single-purpose accounts on HN, nor (to widen the scope slightly) accounts that are primarily obsessed with one agenda. That's incompatible with intellectual curiosity, which is the thing this site exists for.

Since your account seems clearly in that category, I need to ask you to stop posting about this, not just now but in the future. That's not taking a side about Vlang (I have no idea!) - it's just about the intended use of HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Zip Function Solution: Haskell, Elixir, JavaScript, Pytho... by suprfnk on Friday November 11, 2022 @03:00AM (#33558300)
All I can say is, I'm not that poster. The names being similar is a coincidence. This being mostly an anonymous forum however, I don't have anything to prove it to you. Maybe my post history can serve as a small argument, although that can be faked/bought/hacked too.

I think it would be better to engage in open, sincere, and civil discourse about the language -- instead of labelling people that raise questions or concerns as trolls with sleeper accounts.