News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by rconti on Friday October 07, 2022 @06:40PM (#33127751)
I get that it's inconvenient and could be used nefariously. I'm not sure what kinds of worker protections airline staff have in Europe, but I can see why it might be problematic that I'm tracking the employee as they drive their van full of lost luggage to my hotel.

Still, it's my stuff, so I'm going to keep putting AirTags in every bag I travel with. I'm sorry, but.. what are they going to do? Ban me from the airline?

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by svnpenn on Friday October 07, 2022 @06:44PM (#33127804)
> I'm sorry, but.. what are they going to do? Ban me from the airline?

Um, yeah.

why do you think that you're special, and that you can blatantly ignore the rules? I don't agree with the rule, but if you brazenly ignore it, and they catch you, they have every right to ban you from future flights. Just look at what they did with the mask people who started trouble. Bam, permaban from flights. You wanna push your luck go ahead, but don't cry if it happens to you.

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by rconti on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:05PM (#33128045)
Why do you think I think I'm special? I simply think we're all humans, with basic rights, such as being able to keep tabs on our personal property, within reason-- which, surely, a small, light, unobtrusive tracker that has no known problematic failure modes, and which contains a battery that is within the checked baggage limits comports with?

I made no suggestion that I should be able to shirk the rules while everyone else deserves to get caught.

You're welcome to point and laugh at me if Lufthansa bans me and I have to stop putting AirTags in my bags so as not to be banned by other airlines, should they choose to adopt such an anti-consumer stance as well.

I have no real issue with taking a calculated risk, the kinds of calculated risks we take all day every day. Surely you don't carefully read the terms of carriage on every airline ticket you purchase. I know I don't. I trust that the market will more or less treat us reasonably, and if one vendor does not, I can find another which does.

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by cardiffspaceman on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:17PM (#33128131)
The two obvious counters to your initial claims:

> unobtrusive tracker that has no known problematic failure modes, and which contains a battery that is within the checked baggage limits comports with?

You generally are not allowed to carry lithium batteries in checked baggage. So your phone's lithium battery is not a problem as long as it's in your pocket.

The failure mode you forgot is "sets fire to itself and other objects."

The "AWAY" bags that used to be on all the YouTube videos and which had charging banks had to have a way to pluck the charging bank off the bag if the bags were gate-checked. (Applies to other brands too).

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by StrictDabbler on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:28PM (#33128229)
The battery in an AirTag is a standard CR2032 button cell, such as you'll find in thermometers, car keys, or similar small devices. Lithium batteries in checked luggage are limited to 0.3g. A CR2032 has 0.1g. It cannot start a fire while in the AirTag any more than your car keys can.
Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by gruez on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:25PM (#33128200)
>You generally are not allowed to carry lithium batteries in checked baggage

Mind linking to the relevant regulations that say that? The ones that I turned up[1] says that batteries are fine as long as they're in an installed device.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33128125

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by matthewmacleod on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:26PM (#33128205)
You generally are not allowed to carry lithium batteries in checked baggage. So your phone's lithium battery is not a problem as long as it's in your pocket.

This is absolutely not true – guidelines from e.g. FAA and IATA are extremely clear that devices are permitted in both checked and carry-on baggage. There are some restrictions around bare cells, e-cigarettes etc. but for the most part these devices are no problem.

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by KerrAvon on Friday October 07, 2022 @06:47PM (#33127840)
Look at the actual cases, though. You had to be really aggro to get the permaban instead of just getting walked off the flight with a warning. IMHO, they were not aggressive enough.
Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by woah on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:30PM (#33128245)
If we start allowing airtags in luggage, who knows what's next?
Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by fshbbdssbbgdd on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:20PM (#33128158)
What, do the baggage handlers at Lufthansa have free time to go searching for AirTags?
Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by HWR_14 on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:34PM (#33128277)
> do the baggage handlers at Lufthansa have free time to go searching for AirTags?

"Detect airtags nearby" is an app you can download.

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by yreg on Friday October 07, 2022 @06:52PM (#33127913)
They cannot ban all of us.
Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by svnpenn on Friday October 07, 2022 @06:55PM (#33127940)
yeah, they really can. Flights are a sellers market, they run near empty flights often. Plus less people are using AirTags than you think.

Again, I think its a dumb rule. But don't think you are special and can just ignore it forever with no consequences.

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by rconti on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:00PM (#33127989)
I suspect I'm misreading your comment. You say "they run near empty flights often", which is not true based on current load factor data, at least in the US[1]; it's as high as ever.

But you also say "it's a sellers market" which would imply high demand where they can afford to lose a few passengers (which would be true based on basic economics). So I suspect this is what you intended to say, unless I'm really misunderstanding something.

1. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LOADFACTOR

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by counttheforks on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:17PM (#33128133)
Why do you feel the need to defend large companies when you don't even agree with them? It's a fascinating phenomenon.
Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by recursive on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:02PM (#33128017)
> run near empty flights often

This is kind of amazing to hear. Roughly the last 10 flights I've been on have been completely full.

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by seanp2k2 on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:22PM (#33128172)
Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by Zigurd on Friday October 07, 2022 @08:04PM (#33128478)
Consumer-facing rules need credibility to have effect. Airlines have squandered customer trust for decades.
Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by xwdv on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:04PM (#33128035)
I don’t think you’ve thought this through.

If they find out you put an air tag in your luggage they’ll report you for having lithium batteries in your luggage and push to have you placed on Do Not Fly lists. Now you cannot fly ANY airline for the rest of your life. You will never travel anywhere by air again, unless you have some kind of private plane. Basically, you’re SCREWED for the rest of your life.

Is that what you want?

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by rconti on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:10PM (#33128075)
I am not sure what's with the tone of this comment, it seems a lot like a teacher who once told me I'd never be able to get a job if I put my feet on my desk, but, here I am.

(26) Baggage equipped with lithium battery(ies) must be carried as carry-on baggage unless the battery(ies) is removed from the baggage. Removed battery(ies) must be carried in accordance with the provision for spare batteries prescribed in paragraph (a)(18) of this section. The provisions of this paragraph do not apply to baggage equipped with lithium batteries not exceeding:

(i) For lithium metal batteries, a lithium content of 0.3 grams; or

(ii) For lithium ion batteries, a Watt-hour rating of 2.7 Wh.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-I/s...

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by hdevalence on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:32PM (#33128261)
For reference, a typical CR2032 has 0.1g lithium metal content and ~0.6Wh capacity.

https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/cr2032.pdf

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by gruez on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:15PM (#33128125)
1. you could always use the "oops, must have forgotten the airtag from my last trip :^)" excuse

2. The relevant authorities[1][2] seem to say that batteries in checked luggage is fine as long as it's in install equipment, so you're not violating any regulations that would get you reported.

[1] https://www.iata.org/contentassets/6fea26dd84d24b26a7a1fd578...

[2] https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/lithium-batteries-baggage

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by golem14 on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:12PM (#33128089)
Do the AirTags have lithium ion cells?

I thought they have the no explosive cr2032 or thereabouts…

Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by MobiusHorizons on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:41PM (#33128330)
cr2032 are lithium, but not usually the same chemistry as rechargeable lithium ion. (side note, some cr2032 cells for use as battery backup for realtime clocks are actually rechargeable, which is pretty cool) However, as the sibling comment says, they are allowed because there is a threshold below which batteries are allowed.
Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by seanp2k2 on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:23PM (#33128188)
a cr2032 is an example of a "lithium primary cell" meaning it's not rechargable, whereas "lithium ion" is rechargeable https://www.mpoweruk.com/lithiumP.htm
Re:Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage by ipython on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:47PM (#33128376)
I don’t see why it’s problematic to see where your bag is. The employee isn’t driving from their home with your luggage- and if they were, there are bigger problems.

You have a point where he may make multiple stops which may include the personal addresses of folks also on your flight. But I can’t imagine you have enough ability to match a person with an address this way.