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Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by userbinator on Monday September 12, 2022 @09:35AM (#32809994)
Given that he's already written an entire OS, I don't think he's being too ambitious. It already passes Acid3, which is more than can be said for Dillo and NetSurf, the two other prominent "alternative browser" projects. Those aren't even capable of passing Acid2.

The Ladybird browser came to life on July 4th

Coincidence or not, that's a great date.

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by senko on Monday September 12, 2022 @02:28PM (#32814679)
> Given that he's already written an entire OS, I don't think he's being too ambitious.

Also, he actually did work on web browsers previously:

> Until that point, my career had been focused on web browsers (WebKit at Apple & Nokia).

So he knows exactly what he's doing.

Based on those two datapoints, I'd say he (and other contributors) have a good shot at it.

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by Y_Y on Monday September 12, 2022 @12:08PM (#32812430)
I haven't used it, but it seems that Flow[0] is also a plausible modern alternative browser which passes the Acid tests[1], unless you disqualify it for being closed source and borrowing its JS engine from Firefox.

[0] https://www.ekioh.com/flow-browser/ [1] https://www.ekioh.com/devblog/acid/

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by svnpenn on Tuesday September 13, 2022 @08:22AM (#32823367)
> unless you disqualify it for being closed source

Yes, I do disqualify it for that reason.

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by Archelaos on Monday September 12, 2022 @06:05PM (#32817641)
>> The Ladybird browser came to life on July 4th

> Coincidence or not, that's a great date.

Especially if considering that St. Ulrich is also the saint of the dying.

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by userbinator on Monday September 12, 2022 @10:27PM (#32820077)
Was thinking more along the lines of "browser independence" (from Big Tech) day.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by bla3 on Monday September 12, 2022 @12:41PM (#32812893)
Ladybird doesn't pass Acid 2 either. It does pass Acid 3.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by olliej on Monday September 12, 2022 @04:12PM (#32816223)
what's the failure? I _think_ some stuff got changed in spec land which makes acid2 no longer "correct"
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by userbinator on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:49PM (#32815874)
That's surprising. I'd expect Acid3 to require far more effort to pass than Acid2.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by deaddodo on Monday September 12, 2022 @06:17PM (#32817820)
Why? Acid3 just requires basic CSS support and a someone ES5 conformant js-implementation.

Acid2 was specifically built to call IE out and to put browser builders on notice. It tests the most nuanced little quirks of some specific specs; and, because of some changes in the modern standard, doesn’t actually conform anymore.

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by rthomas6 on Tuesday September 13, 2022 @11:34AM (#32825669)
Firefox passes acid2.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by jzig on Monday September 12, 2022 @11:25PM (#32820350)
Safari on iOS only scores 98/100 on Acid 3!
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by w0m on Monday September 12, 2022 @11:58AM (#32812262)
my local FireFox is only 97/100; which susprises me...
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by Melatonic on Monday September 12, 2022 @05:43PM (#32817424)
Strangely I get 99/100 and it is totally smooth but pauses for just a second at item 68. Red text also appears in the very upper left that says " YOU SHOULD NOT SEE THIS AT ALL "

This is with all extensions off using Firefox ESR

https://imgur.com/a/ExBMzlx

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by aidenn0 on Monday September 12, 2022 @12:01PM (#32812306)
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by mrweasel on Monday September 12, 2022 @12:09PM (#32812437)
That's also "only" 97% in Firefox.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by throwaway09223 on Monday September 12, 2022 @05:37PM (#32817357)
I was also seeing only 97% in Firefox.

Disabling the LastPass add-on brought it to 100%. I'm guessing you also use LastPass?

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by userbinator on Monday September 12, 2022 @08:16PM (#32819133)
That's a very fingerprintable observation.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by an_ko on Monday September 12, 2022 @10:04PM (#32819948)
Most rendering oddities are not directly detectable by JS on the page, with the notable exception of the <canvas> element.

Though I suppose rendering differences that affect z-order or visibility could be detected indirectly, by listening for pointer events on elements that are "supposed to be" visible/hidden.

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by userbinator on Monday September 12, 2022 @11:10PM (#32820278)
Isn't one of the main uses of JS to get the contents of elements on the page? That "97%" and "100%" would be clearly evident.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by an_ko on Tuesday September 13, 2022 @08:28PM (#32831841)
You are of course correct. I should not try to think about software at 4am! :)
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by mrweasel on Tuesday September 13, 2022 @05:25AM (#32822156)
You're right, disable LastPass and I get a 100%... Strange.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by everforward on Monday September 12, 2022 @12:23PM (#32812633)
I get 100% using Firefox 104.0.2 (64-bit) on Windows 10. Maybe it's related to the platform or addons? Could it be uMatrix or something blocking some kind of behavior that would be questionable on a normal webpage?
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by inversetelecine on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:18PM (#32815376)
I get 100% also, using Librewolf fork of FF (104.0.2). RFP is on and uBlock Origin enabled.

edit: MacOS and Windows.

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by memorable on Monday September 19, 2022 @01:30AM (#32894601)
Also 100% on Firefox Mobile 104.2.0
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by jszymborski on Monday September 12, 2022 @04:51PM (#32816776)
100% on FF 104.0 for Ubuntu
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by glandium on Monday September 12, 2022 @05:18PM (#32817124)
Try disabling addons. 10ten reader, for example, is known to alter pages' style and to break Acid3. There may be other addons doing the same.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by drdaeman on Tuesday September 13, 2022 @02:38PM (#32828482)
100/100 on my Firefox, and it's fairly customized with a bunch of extensions and non-default settings to the extent some sites refuse to work normally and I have to either ignore them or open them in an "alternative" "clean" browser.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by actuallyalys on Monday September 12, 2022 @12:21PM (#32812606)
Huh. I get 100% with 104.0.2 on Ubuntu.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by Tagbert on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:32PM (#32815595)
100% - Firefox 103.0.2 on Mac OS
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by jvalencia on Monday September 12, 2022 @12:32PM (#32812771)
99% :-/
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by bowsamic on Monday September 12, 2022 @12:52PM (#32813046)
Try “https”?
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by aidenn0 on Monday September 12, 2022 @01:28PM (#32813681)
Strangely I get 99% with https and 100% with http

On FF for Android it hits 100% but the image is incorrect (there is red text in the top-left).

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by vetinari on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:53PM (#32815944)
> Strangely I get 99% with https and 100% with http

Same (FF 104.0.2 on Mac, with uBO).

The failing test is:

    Test 64 failed: object.data isn't absolute
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by glandium on Monday September 12, 2022 @05:16PM (#32817113)
That test is actually assuming the url is http, and doesn't work on https.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by artiii on Monday September 12, 2022 @02:35PM (#32814782)
try click on A for more info. In stable i get 100/100 (97/100 in beta, but with privacy.trackingprotection.enabled=true and privacy.resistFingerprinting)
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by AlecSchueler on Monday September 12, 2022 @02:58PM (#32815116)
Came to Hacker News expecting the top comment to be a critical one outlining the inherent problems with this project and why it was doomed to failure, so this whole thread has made for quite pleasant and exciting reading! Thank you!

Yes, I am aware also that HN has blindspots, eg with Show HN Dropbox

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by sph on Monday September 12, 2022 @12:36PM (#32812814)
July 4th is only celebrated in the US of A. The author is Swedish.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by avgcorrection on Monday September 12, 2022 @01:13PM (#32813385)
I tried to find some July 4th where something Swedish happened:

> 1708 Battle of Holowczyn: Swedish King Charles XII defeats superior Russian force in surprising vctory

That must have been it.

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by int_19h on Monday September 12, 2022 @02:09PM (#32814406)
Given how that campaign ended for Charles, I hope not!
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by SargeZT on Monday September 12, 2022 @02:53PM (#32815043)
I'm still living in 1708 Sweden, don't spoil anything for me!
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by malshe on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:51PM (#32815909)
The whole world celebrates 4th July thanks to Jeff Goldblum's virus and Will Smith's flying skills /s
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by sb057 on Monday September 12, 2022 @01:38PM (#32813891)
>July 4th is only celebrated in the US of A.

Not entirely!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebild_Festival

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by osigurdson on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:02PM (#32815182)
July 4th matters, even if you are not American. It represents the first non-imperialist great power.

I’m not American by the way.

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by buildartefact on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:23PM (#32815454)
“Non-imperialist”? What?
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by cercatrova on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:22PM (#32815435)
First in all of history? I highly doubt that.

Relatedly, I find that with regards to history, most people have quite a large recency bias. If I ask someone who the greatest actors of all time are, at least half will be within the last several years. Same with this question, the first non imperialist great power is likely some random Chinese or Mesopotamian or African kingdom.

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by beebeepka on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:10PM (#32815271)
Non-imperialist at the time maybe?
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by irrational on Monday September 12, 2022 @02:10PM (#32814420)
Surely some people have birthdays, anniversaries, etc. on July 4th outside the USA.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by pessimizer on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:25PM (#32815490)
That must be why it's a coincidence, then, because it's a date in the year that surely some people must have birthdays, anniversaries, etc. on. I didn't think that was unusual for dates, though.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by jonathankoren on Monday September 12, 2022 @01:32PM (#32813763)
July 4th occurs worldwide.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by markovbot on Monday September 12, 2022 @01:52PM (#32814141)
which is probably why the person you're replying to didn't say "July 4th only occurs in the US of A" but instead said "July 4th is only celebrated in the US of A"
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by hh3k0 on Monday September 12, 2022 @01:57PM (#32814223)
You'd be hard-pressed to find it occuring in Iran.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by bravoetch on Monday September 12, 2022 @02:01PM (#32814290)
Do they just skip from the 3rd to the 5th in Iran and have some kind of un-leap year? This is news to me. I thought the calendar was the same all over the world.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by Someone on Monday September 12, 2022 @02:37PM (#32814809)
They don’t have July. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Hijri_calendar.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tir_(month)#Observances:

“Independence Day (United States) - 14 or 15 Tir”

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by nkozyra on Monday September 12, 2022 @02:28PM (#32814680)
Jokes aside, the calendar is in no way the same all over the world.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by hulitu on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:39PM (#32815705)
All european US vasals are at least very happy to remember this day.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by hackernewds on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:40PM (#32815717)
Why is July 4th relevant?
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by patmorgan23 on Monday September 12, 2022 @06:25PM (#32817944)
Because of LadyBird Johnson former first lady of the United States.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by andrewmcwatters on Monday September 12, 2022 @11:14AM (#32811588)
Acid tests are not strict standards test suites. You should not be looking to adhere to them.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by coldtea on Monday September 12, 2022 @01:56PM (#32814210)
They're better than strict standard test suites, because they exercize real world useful stuff AND give a fun visual representation of the maturity. Wish we had such "acid test" for later CSS features like Flexbox too...
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by andrewmcwatters on Monday September 12, 2022 @02:57PM (#32815105)
No, they're immediately provably worse. If you started work on a CSS rasterizer today, there are zero test suites you can use for reference comparison.

I'm talking about easy stuff, too, like normal flow, margin, border, padding box alignment.

The existing official test suites are entirely manual.

Edit: What you're describing requires you to make the entire world first, then finally test something.

Here's an example: I want to test the white-space property. How do I test that? Oh also, font rasterizers are all different and standards don't dictate what happens after box layout. It's acceptable that glyphs render with different dimensions.

How do I test that? A casual HN reader isn't going to care. Someone actually writing this stuff, will.

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by coldtea on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:39PM (#32815707)
Sure, but I think you have a misconception: that those are like compliance tests for developers or have that role.

Rather, those acid tests were tests that test the rendering engine (in multiple aspects at the same time), and are meant for the end users: to give them a nice visual representation of the browser's progress, or lack thereof, and to push browser developers to fix issues that cause visual glitches (with features drawing the test image selected to be nice for layout writers to have) and have them race each other to pass them...

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by andrewmcwatters on Monday September 12, 2022 @05:00PM (#32816896)
I don't have any misconceptions about the state of web technology testing, or how WaSP made an impact on the miserable state of the industry at the time. I work on browser technology.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by tannhaeuser on Monday September 12, 2022 @05:26PM (#32817228)
> there are zero test suites you can use for reference comparison.

What about W3C's web-platform-tests suite [1]?

[1]: https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/tree/master/css

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by dillondoyle on Tuesday September 13, 2022 @12:45AM (#32820725)
To test white space, quick thought have not tried, perhaps render some text that hits a chunk of the differences. Start default/normal. like perhaps text has a lot of tabs. JS measure offsetWidth. Or maybe use canvas export image see if base64 is same

Do it again with different CSS settings.

Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by bastawhiz on Monday September 12, 2022 @01:37PM (#32813868)
No, but they're good signals for the capabilities of a browser engine. Passing Acid3 means you've got a browser that would have been pretty damn good in 2010 or so. It's a good mark of progress for any three month old browser engine.
Re:Ladybird: A new cross-platform browser project by asddubs on Monday September 12, 2022 @01:42PM (#32813951)
two years and 3 months