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Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by Someone on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @08:10AM (#32410585)
https://www.stringbike.com/stringbike_asthemagicworks.html shows the mechanism. Looks nice.

There will be a lot of pressure on a relatively small wheel there, so I wonder what dust or a grain of sand would do there. I would guess making sure the mechanism near the pedals stays operating smoothly takes more maintenance than with normal bicycles. I wonder whether they considered exchanging rotary motion of the pedals for up/down movement so that they could get rid of that complex shape.

Also, given that they sell a “seatpole spare string holder“, those strings don’t seem to last as long as a traditional bicycle chain.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by feb on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @11:32AM (#32413669)
About longevity, on https://www.stringbike.com/stringbike_support_questionsandan... they say strings last between 500 to 1500km.

Bike chains supposedly last from 500 to 5000 miles (https://www.bikeshepherd.org/how-long-do-bike-chains-last/) depending on usage and maintenance.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by askvictor on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @09:16PM (#32420468)
Bike gears wear out pretty fast too, so you'd want to factor that into the equation (different schools of thought on this; some replace the cassette every time the chain is replaced, some replace it every 2-3 chains, some replace chains much much frequently so that they don't have to replace the cassette as often).

I'm curious how often you'd need to replace other moving parts on the stringbike; at a guess since there's much less exposed metal-on-metal there'd be less wear.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by stouset on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @09:54PM (#32420717)
You don’t have to change the cassette out frequently at all if you regularly maintain your chain and replace it when the stretch becomes too great.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by askvictor on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @11:45PM (#32421332)
As said, there are different schools of thought. The smaller cogs in particular will wear out the fastest; if you're using them a lot, the cog wears, which then causes the chain to wear faster, which will then cause the other cogs to wear faster.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by markandrewj on Thursday August 11, 2022 @12:23PM (#32428054)
It's sort of the opposite, a worn chain will wear on your cassette. Using a chain checker, or a ruler, you can measure how worn your chain is. If you replace the chain too late, the new chain will not mesh with the cassette, and it will slip. You can usually do this 3-4 times before the cassette will also need to be replaced. How long you will be able to use a chain is dependent on the riding environment, chain material, how well it is cleaned, and how well it is lubricated.

With an 8 speed bike, riding between 300km - 500km a week, I usually get around ~1000km on a chain riding outdoors, or about a month on a chain. Riding indoors on a trainer however, my chain almost never needs to be replaced.

For an 8 speed bike you replace the chain at 0.75 wear.

Depending on the bike you may choose to let both wear, and replace both at the same time. Eventually you will find the shifting sloppy, and the chain slipping however. This observation is from personal experience.

I find the idea of using string interesting, more commonly on the market you would see belt driven designs like the pinion.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by ElijahLynn on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @06:29PM (#32419237)
The maths:

500km == 310.68m

1,500km == 932.05m

500m == 804.67km

5,000m == 8046.72km

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by swznd on Thursday August 11, 2022 @03:28AM (#32422585)
I got confused a second.

you should write "mi" not "m", m symbol for meter.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by rcoveson on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @02:07PM (#32416147)
It might cost more to manufacture in the USA, but that 61% increase to minimum longevity sure would be nice.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by loeg on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @03:19PM (#32417110)
What is this comment in response to?
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by yetanotherloser on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @04:02PM (#32417623)
It appears to be mild snark about the mixed units (km vs miles) caused by quoting two different sources.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by rcoveson on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @04:02PM (#32417616)
Minimum time to failure seems to be 500 in either unit, so it makes sense to move manufacturing (or at least testing) the the region that uses the larger unit.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by loeg on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @04:53PM (#32418295)
Ok. Silly quips aside, bike chains do actually last 5000 miles, not 500, if you keep them relatively clean. That's a lot better than 1500 miles or kilometers.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by ElijahLynn on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @06:32PM (#32419263)
If this rope works well and is easy to replace, and is inexpensive I think I would be fine with changing it every 300 to 1,000 miles or so. They have it listed that you can change colors to match your outfit, so I am expecting it to be that easy.

> Change the strings quickly and easily in 2 minutes, no tool required and no need to remove the wheel. Choose the color to match your outfit or mood.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by seanp2k2 on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @08:29PM (#32420164)
They say a few minutes, but with a lockring tool and a chain with a masterlink, I bet someone with a bit of experience could change a cassette in under 2 minutes as well. The rest of the mechanism seems a lot less durable and a lot less amenable to off-road riding where one might wish to pedal backward up to a full revolution to reposition their feet without wishing to propel the bike forward. It might be OK for casual / commuter bikes, but belt drives already exist and last a long time. The width of the rear axle required for the dual-sided drive also looks super goofy and probably gives a poor Q factor ( https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/what-is-q-factor-and-do... ). Overall these seem like a lot of compromises for little benefit beyond a chain or belt. Chain-driven bicycles are also incredibly robust and proven to work amazingly well in a very wide range of conditions, and are serviceable worldwide.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by switchbak on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @04:31PM (#32418002)
That's a simplistic analysis. Quality chains almost certainly have a life longer than 500 miles, even taking into account premature failures.

Regardless, aren't you suggesting here that we should use chains and not strings because their upper bound of lifetime is higher?

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by protein_lense on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @07:52PM (#32419929)
My Gates belt probably has >10k miles on it and is also silent. Coupled with a Rohloff, it is an essentially maintenance free drivetrain, save for changing the hub oil once per year.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by seanp2k2 on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @08:21PM (#32420110)
Too bad that the Rohloff setup alone is like $1600, and the non-electric bikes with them tend to be >$5000. That Santos Cross Lite with the Lauf suspension fork does look pretty trick though. They have a helpful bike finder, though lots are not available in the US https://www.rohloff.de/en/service/search/bike-finder
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by kazinator on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @11:24AM (#32413526)
Any serious cyclist carries a chain link tool for fixing a broken chain, along with a couple of spare inner tubes. Breaking a link doesn't happen often, and you'd typically not let a chain get so old that it happens from age; that will trash the sprockets. I've had breakage happen, though, and was glad to be able to get going again, in minutes.

Since you can't fix a broken string just by removing a link and closing it, the only protection against string breakage is to carry a full spare.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by loeg on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @03:13PM (#32417025)
> Any serious cyclist carries a chain link tool for fixing a broken chain

Your definition of "serious cyclist" excludes a lot of serious cyclists. Precisely because it happens so rarely, carrying a bulky tool for a rare problem isn't worth it to everyone.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by rtlfe on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @03:36PM (#32417334)
Yeah "serious cyclist" feels so impossible to define that it's meaningless. If I ride to work every day but go to a shop for maintenance instead of buying my own tools am I not serious?
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by oldgradstudent on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @04:34PM (#32418033)
Go to a shop to fix the problem, but have the basic tools and knowledge to make the temporary repairs needed to be able to ride the bike home or the shop.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by kazinator on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @04:12PM (#32417745)
I'd say you're not serious about being able to back on a working bike in almost any conceivable breakdown situation.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by loeg on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @04:56PM (#32418338)
> serious about being able to back on a working bike in almost any conceivable breakdown situation

We've seriously shifted the goalposts from "serious cyclist."

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by kazinator on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @05:17PM (#32418596)
Not really; a serious cyclist is someone who depends on and is invested in cycling as a mode of transport, who is not able to meet commitments if their bike breaks down without an real-time remedy.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by kixiQu on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @05:52PM (#32418896)
So... no one within range of being able to catch a bus is a serious cyclist because they have an out? No one who can call a friend for a ride can be serious about cycling? I don't think this is typically what people would mean by that phrase.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by kazinator on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @06:21PM (#32419151)
Yes; if you go out thinking, "I don't have to care about the condition of my bike or what to do if it breaks down because there are bus routes along the way, or I can call a friend," then you're not a serious cyclist.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by ygjb on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @07:13PM (#32419620)
Using your logic, I must not be a serious driver because I don't drive with the equipment necessary to repair my car. Or my bike, when I am riding. Or my e-bike when I am riding that.

Folks who are serious about any hobby or activity are also often relentlessly practical. I used to ride 100km from the city I lived in, out to my brothers farm. It was not a particularly long or challenging ride, and it had cell service most of the way, even 20 years ago. I always did a gear check, and carried spare tires, but in 4 years of doing that 20-30 times per year, I replaced tires, but never a chain on that ride. I also never carried the tools to do that work because it fell into the category of unnecessary gear. If there was a problem, I was only about a 30 minute wait for help from either side if I needed to be picked up.

I also used to do a fair bit of trail riding, and for a much longer period of time, and for significantly technical trails. Again, a gear check ahead of time, and proper maintenance meant I took tubes, but not the chain repair tools (and one time I regretted not taking 4 tubes, because it was a long and hot 14km hike back carrying my bike on a July afternoon).

I am not going to gatekeep your ability to gatekeep, but you should at least understand that your perspective on what constitutes a "serious" cyclist is completely subjective and not rooted in anything meaningful.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by shellfisher on Thursday August 11, 2022 @12:11AM (#32421503)
Pretend instead of “serious” they said “frobnozz”. You’re not a frobnozz cyclist unless you can do a handstand on your handlebars! How absolutely un-frobnozz can you get??

There’s a tendency to ascribe value to words like “serious” but it’s a temptation, nothing more. Who cares that some bozo thinks “serious” drivers drive manual transmission cars, or ride bikes in a particular way.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by tweetle_beetle on Thursday August 11, 2022 @03:24AM (#32422560)
I imagine serious cyclists also carry spare spokes, spare brake pads, spare derailleur hangers, spare bearings, spare cables, spare tyres, lubricant, assembly grease, spare batteries, spanner for truing bent components, hydraulic fluid (if using disc brakes), spare helmet in event of crash, etc.

The worst mechanical I ever had was a rear derailleur which deformed under load and pulled into wheel. I have never heard of anyone carrying a complete spare derailleur unless on a round the world trip.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by oldgradstudent on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @04:29PM (#32417966)
A chain tool is pretty small and is often included in cheap pocket multitool collections like

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/900-bike-multitool/_/R-p-10042...

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by loeg on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:14PM (#32431158)
That's cool. My multitool doesn't have one and my home tool is much, much larger[1] (160 x 100 x 22mm, 242g). I guess if I were buying a new multitool today, I'd try to get one with a chain tool included, but I also don't feel a pressing need to carry one. I've never broken a chain while riding, nor do I know anyone who has broken a chain, and I ride with a lot of cyclists putting out 600-1000W in sprints.

[1]: http://www.birzman.com/products_2.php?uID=2&cID=31&Key=54

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by scrollaway on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @09:59PM (#32420748)
Indeed, this feels a bit like saying “Any serious programmer always carries a thumbdrive with a bootable Linux ISO on it”…
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by Wildgoose on Thursday August 11, 2022 @07:16AM (#32424031)
I'm not a "serious cyclist", I just cycle on bike trails - but a chain link tool and a couple of spare links is just miniscule. If I need to make that fix when I'm in the countryside 15 miles away from my car then not having that option just isn't sensible.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by kazinator on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @04:08PM (#32417695)
It's actually a very tiny tool.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by aliqot on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @06:24PM (#32419183)
My chain tool weighs 28 grams, and can fit 3 chain tools in a box for a deck of cards. It is the most common form factor for this tool. I wouldn't consider it bulky- are you very small?
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by CRConrad on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:10AM (#32436791)
Bah, that's just the emergency on-the-road version -- not a serious chain tool...
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by aliqot on Friday August 19, 2022 @12:03AM (#32517473)
My apologies, I live a simple lifestyle. This was the only one available to me sold by someone in my community.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by elliottkember on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @12:01PM (#32414216)
A spare string weighs a lot less than a chain. They provide a spare string in the seat pole apparently.

Edit: there's also two strings, one on each side. So if one snaps, I think you can ride home with the other

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by kazinator on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @01:01PM (#32415192)
Right; I've never met anyone who carries an entire spare chain. It would not even slightly make sense.

If you put a new chain on old sprockets, it will likely skip, particularly on the rear cassette. This will go double if you're someone who allowed the chain to wear for so long that it just broke. That chain will only work with the sprockets that it is on and vice versa.

If you damaged a newer chain due to some freak accident (like cross chaining while shifting under load or something: shouldn't happen on a quality, well adjusted drive train) you probably don't want to replace it; aside from the bent/broken link, it is good. Splice the damaged link out and get moving.

Swapping in a new chain could be extra work. It likely has excess links which you have to remove and set aside, and may have stuck links that have to be identified and massaged into releasing.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by wiredfool on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @03:18PM (#32417090)
I bring a breaker tool and a spare magic link. Never needed the link, but it’s small. The breaker tool has saved a couple of riding partners.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by aliqot on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @06:25PM (#32419194)
It's always the clip on the magic link. You ever notice that? I've never broken the link itself, always the clip.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by tetraodonpuffer on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @03:12PM (#32417018)
I just have a couple powerlinks in my bag when riding, which take very little space. It is also unlikely to have a chain break while riding, however having a chain breaker tool and spare links comes in handy if your rear derailleur gives up the ghost (due to a fall etc), as in that case you can bypass it entirely with a shortened chain.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by FridgeSeal on Thursday August 11, 2022 @01:22AM (#32421870)
Mountain biker chiming in: have broken chains, friends have broken chains. It’s not a common occurrence, but basically ever has a chain breaker and spare links in their bags. MTB also admittedly puts a lot of components under far more wear and tear than other disciplines.

For MTB especially, it’s not the fact that there’s probably better drivetrain options, but the fact that the current options will happily take a beating, and still let you ride back out. I’m sure the string is real nice and quiet, and has a nice internal hub, but my chain, mech and cassette will get whipped into trees and rocks, will have sand, water, grit ground through it for ~20kms, sustain impacts from going off drops and jumps and they’ll continue to work. I’ve bent mechs, hangers, dinged cassettes, ground chainrings, and they’ll put up with an astounding amount and still get you home.

Once home the ease of access make maintenance a lot simpler, everything gets a clean and lube and it’s happy to go again.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by analog31 on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @09:28PM (#32420557)
I've been cycling for 50 years. When I got a job where I could start riding to work, I carried an inordinate amount of stuff, including full rain gear, all the time. Gradually, I started leaving most of it behind. The reason was that I developed a better sense of the actual risks of breakdown, and the resources at my disposal should something happen, based strictly on my own circumstances. This is also kind of how I live my life.

The people I know who've had breakdowns tend to be physically a lot stronger than me, and more "adventuresome" in their choice of riding conditions. For instance I expect my mountain biking friend to have a new story of destruction every few weeks. In some cases, I suspect that neglect or lack of maintenance skills played a role.

I bring more spares and stuff when I go on really long rides, or if my family travels to some remote place with the bikes.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by switchbak on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @04:35PM (#32418048)
"Serious" cyclists are often using newer chains like those from SRAM. Many of these newer ones don't use spare links, you'd carry a quick link and remove a portion of the chain to get yourself riding again.

Small distinction I agree, but you come off a little arrogant with such a strongly worded statement.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by bootlooped on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @08:32PM (#32420184)
I consider myself a "bike ride enthusiast" to get out of these ridiculous standards and expectations.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by adrianN on Thursday August 11, 2022 @01:30AM (#32421915)
Cycling is essentially the only mode of transportation that I use but I never carry any spare parts or tools with me. Not even a pump. The only tool I carry is some cash and a credit card.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by NegativeLatency on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @07:09PM (#32419592)
I don't carry a chain link tool, too heavy/bulky. Been using a single speed with the same chain for about 13 years now.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by askvictor on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @09:19PM (#32420497)
There's a spare string provided in the seatpost; claims to take 10 minutes to replace and no tools required.

But as with all riding, it depends on use-case. For remote cycling, you'll be carrying more spares than commuting, where worst-case you can walk the bike home.

Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by xupybd on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @08:27PM (#32420152)
I used to bike a lot when I was young. I took no spares. Worst case I walked my bike home.
Re:Stringbike: Benefits (2020) by gnopgnip on Wednesday August 10, 2022 @04:04PM (#32417639)
With this string design the end of the string is fixed to the freewheel. So they don't have wear related issues that regular chains have like skipping gears, dropping a chain