> For example, having children decreases the former yet increases the latter.

For you, maybe. This is not true for everbody.

How do you know? People are notoriously bad at predicting what will make them happy/unhappy.

(fwiw, I'm not saying you're wrong)

I'm just saying that comment I replied to makes this sound as universal truth. Wanting children and being happy about having children are subjective things. There are people who don't have children and are happy about it, people who have children but are unhappy about it and everything inbetween.

People who want to have children should have them, and people who don't want to have children shoudln't have them =)

These debates always devolve into people pointing at outliers.

Simply compare the two curves. Those with children vs those without.

Your comment stands if you look at outliers, GP stands if you take the curves.

Its not a mathematical problem that you just compare the curves, some problems are hard and cannot be generalized.

And you are adding other factors if you think people who do not want kids are somehow the outliers. Same as if people wanted kids might be if you actually looked closely, for most people its not a very well thought out choice.

Does the experience of the Outlier not matter because it is not the regular experience?

If we take outliers into the account, then any statement ever regarding human behavior would be false.

Any general statement.

Would that be bad? How?

So you're saying that people who don't want children in fact should have children to be happier? What a presumptuous thing to say.

I'm with you wrt everything you wrote, except this part:

> People who want to have children should have them, and people who don't want to have children shoudln't have them =)

I think it's fine either way! People who want to have children are often disappointed when it's not all roses as they imagined. Conversely, people who don't want to have children are often surprised at the little joys they bring...

> yet increases the latter

How?

Having kids is insanely stressful in the beginning. Your entire life shifts to revolve around them and its utterly exhausting. I could not manage having kids and maintaining friendships at the same time and lost most of my friends due to inaction on my part. As kids get older though for me ~10 years old, they begin to have a lot of autonomy. You see the results of all of your efforts and you realize that everything you have done has contributed to create these small awesome little people with their own thoughts and goals. I have not cried since I was a small child, even when close family died I just shrugged and trudged on. I am for the most part relatively unemotional. My kid came into my room the other day, just smiling and telling me about something and it was suddenly the proudest I have ever been, I almost cried in happiness. It was one of the most surreal things I have ever experienced. I am really looking forward to see what he does next in life and am actually happy about getting to find out.

I'm single but I totally get this.

And that's my fear when I get older (without kids). That the happiness of being single now and not dealing with kids and having more disposable income, etc. etc. will only go so far but that I'll be depressed about being lonely in the future when I am a senior.

I can definitely see how my siblings with kids will be way happier as grandparents.

But yeah, I'm content now without kids cause I get to sleep whenever and my disposable income is enough. lol

Also though, I'm never arrogant in making proclamations that people with kids are miserable.

They might have tough times in the beginning, but the older I get the more at peace they seem as parents.

For one thing, after your children have grown up and moved out, most people are really glad they've gone through parenting, have an adult child they are in relation with, potentially grandchildren to enrich their lives with etc.

To claim that having kids makes you happier in the long-term requires comparing against the control group of childless adults. Last I checked, there was no appreciable difference in happiness between these groups in middle age.

The study I read about claimed the opposite - in later stages of life, parents are happier than childless people.

From the data I've seen, the strongest predictors of happiness are maintaining strong social ties. Children are only one way to do that. I've seen no data suggesting having children specifically is associated with more happiness at any stage of life.