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Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by hedora on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @12:10PM (#32252309)
Infuriatingly, as a non-well-connected victim of a boring (not going to be good PR) crime, I’ve found it is completely impossible to get the police to pull data for my own yard, warrant or no.

In my experience, these capabilities are only used to protect the politically connected or for oppression.

I’d be less skeptical if the program allowed any homeowner to pull any nest footage that included their property, and also allowed individuals to pull any footage that included them.

Of course, that will never happen.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by reincarnate0x14 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @02:32PM (#32254556)
I gave the police a 4k camera video of a crime happening and they did nothing with it. This is pretty standard police laziness in the US, individual cops might care but departments overall give zero shits for small people except as revenue sources.

Data ownership issues like this in the US will never be pushed by existing political interests, hopefully we'll see more EFF-ish PACs in the future that take a page from the fascists and provide the written laws and bills they would like enacted to state and municipal governments so local representatives can edit the title block and get back to harassing their interns.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by tedivm on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @03:51PM (#32255894)
When I was younger our house was robbed and some prescription drugs stolen. Not only did we know who did it, we had text messages where they admitted it and a witness who came forward. The police refused to do anything about it, and told us that if we wanted them to do anything at all we should consider voting for a different mayor.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by Buttons840 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:09PM (#32256162)
Because the mayor created policies that tied the police's hands? Or because they just wanted a different mayor ("vote that librul out or we ain't doing shit" type of thing)?
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by jonathankoren on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:10PM (#32257008)
Probably because they just want a different mayor. Mayors and prosecutors don't have the ability to tie cops' hands. Even council and plebiscite acts to direct the police to treat certain crimes as "lowest priority" are routinely ignored. Mix in decades of copaganda and qualified immunity, and you get American cops that aren't accountable to anyone.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by epicide on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:13PM (#32256231)
I read it as more "we won't do anything unless the mayor forces us and we know this one won't".
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by tedivm on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:55AM (#32265203)
They didn't like the mayor because he supported a civilian audit board. This was eventually forced on the city anyways by the DoJ due to the unbelievably rampant corruption and abuse in the department.

Springfield, Massachusetts if you're curious.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by evancox100 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:38PM (#32256586)
Actually I think the police should take direction from a democratically elected mayor. The problem is that they are most often not politically accountable to anyone at all. Not sure about the particulars of your situation, but that is a very odd response.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by icelancer on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:37PM (#32257346)
Same. I even know who stole stuff from our place of business and found the eBay listing tied to the person who did it. And yet, nothing.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by throwoutway on Thursday July 28, 2022 @01:04PM (#32267149)
It’s not just the US. This happened to me in a west European nation as well
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by teachrdan on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @12:25PM (#32252539)
If the police refuse to subpoena the security company, in the US you can get a civil attorney to file a "John Doe warrant" and use that lawsuit against that unknown defendant to subpoena whoever has the footage you need.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by kop316 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:05PM (#32253102)
Thank you for that info! I am in a similar situation and that was something that did not occur to me.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by buzer on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @03:13PM (#32255282)
> I’d be less skeptical if the program allowed any homeowner to pull any nest footage that included their property, and also allowed individuals to pull any footage that included them.

I don't know how exactly it's in the US, but in EU security cam footage is considered to be personal information and as result of that GDPR applies. So whoever controls the security camera is the data controller and is required to e.g. provide access to people who were recorded. In this case it would likely be the home owner and unless Google was acting as data processor for the home owner they wouldn't be allowed to process that data.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by xyzzy123 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @07:46PM (#32258591)
At first I did not believe this could possibly be true but you're right, there's been a case and everything.

I don't think you have gdpr obligations if your private cameras are just capturing your own grounds and home.

But it DOES apply if your private cameras capture footage of public places.

Interestingly, it looks like it must apply to all cameras in and around AirBNBs.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by buzer on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @08:26PM (#32258955)
https://edpb.europa.eu/sites/default/files/files/file1/edpb_...

2.3 Household exemption

As far I understand it, if the cameras are pointed towards your home the exemption applies. If there is even a partial view of the street it would not apply (like the case is with many doorbell cameras). If there was a fence and the camera did not see above the fence it would likely apply though if there is a gate on the view it might not.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by ThePowerOfFuet on Thursday July 28, 2022 @02:46PM (#32268580)
If your cameras are on your private property and for your personal use, the household exemption means that the GDPR absolutely does not apply.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by Thorrez on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @12:18PM (#32252414)
Are you saying police issued a warrant but a large tech company ignored the warrant?
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by spullara on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @12:20PM (#32252445)
He is saying that the police weren't interested investigating crimes.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by chabons on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @12:31PM (#32252610)
OP is also raising the point that because only the police have the ability to retrieve Nest footage that pertains to them but is not owned by them, access to that data is gated by the police, who may not use that access evenly.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by aliqot on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:07PM (#32253135)
Coming from a small-ish area, how does this happen? Do they say "no" and then offer you the door, or how does it normally go? I assume it could be a manpower issue, if it is a city with more pressing issues, or a city without a detective unit maybe, but outright saying no is hard to justify. I can't imagine a situation that would make it normal to just say no with a straight face.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by usefulcat on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:19PM (#32253336)
Manpower seems the most likely explanation. I have a friend who works in a bike shop. Recently, the shop was broken into and $20K+ worth of high end bikes were stolen, plus a fair amount of damage to the shop.

The next day, they found someone offering to sell the same bikes online (in the same geographical area even). They gave this info to the police, basically "hey here is someone trying to sell known stolen property" and the police told them to try and set up a meeting with the sellers themselves! Called back a week later, still had not even assigned a detective.

$20k is not pocket change, so it does make me wonder exactly what kinds of property crimes they do investigate, if any.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by hinkley on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:22PM (#32253381)
I have heard that in some cases telling the insurance company that nothing is being done might get some movement, but I'm not really sure what they could do that you can't. Call the Chief of Police?
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by zo1 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @03:43PM (#32255759)
Yeah calling him will fix it in no time. Assuming you "have his number".
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by standardUser on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:40PM (#32253707)
It's not a coincidence cops spend a large portion of their time busting consensual drug users and enforcing traffic laws (while armed to the teeth). That's where the money is. Helping find my stolen computer is way more difficult and provides the department with nothing of value.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by uoaei on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @02:01PM (#32254056)
This is especially true in jurisdictions where private prisons operate. Very (too) often the people who own the prisons and profit off of them have close ties to people of authority and power in local government. If you are skeptical, consider: otherwise the prison contract would have gone to someone else with closer ties or more leverage.

Corruption is rampant in the "developed" world but we just use different words for it.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by aliqot on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:47PM (#32253804)
I had not considered this hypothesis. I think my area may be small enough where it's not just a crime against me, but a crime against the community. For what it's worth, I hope your situation gets better. That has to be unsettling.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by jonathankoren on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:20PM (#32257147)
Police are revenue generators. It's the same in both big cities and small towns.

A town of 300 people I grew up next to, always had their one cop ticketing every car that didn't slow down from the posted 55 mph (but honestly, it was always faster) to 30 mph, or accelerated over 30 before they passed the city limits sign.

The city government loved that guy, because he brought in thousands of dollars every week.

When the NYPD threw a fit over de Blasio, they famously refused to arrest anyone unless "it was absolutely necessary". Why? The police union wanted to hurt NYC's[0] budget.[0] It's the same reason why civil forfeiture is so prevelant.

[0] https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/the-ben...

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by throwaway0a5e on Thursday July 28, 2022 @06:32AM (#32262619)
There are some towns where the police have so little headcount that they have enough "real crime" to keep their officers as busy as they want to be and so unpredictably the officers would rather bust drug traffickers and respond to violence than write tickets. These tend to be poor urban communities where the cops (very much like teachers) only work there for a short time early in their careers.

But yes, in the general case you're right that law enforcement is a revenue generator.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by fknorangesite on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @02:46PM (#32254788)
> your situation

Unfortunately this situation is by no means unique.

> That has to be unsettling.

And now you know why there has been a growing movement predicated on the idea that the vast sums of money we spend on police may not be well-spent.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by petre on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @11:52PM (#32260296)
What's the alternative? Build a citizens' militia? Hire a private security firm?
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by withinboredom on Thursday July 28, 2022 @04:06AM (#32261621)
Why pay cops to pull people over when a camera can do it for far less and not cost the manpower? Where I live, you get an automated ticket for even 3 over the limit. The neighborhoods are actually safe to walk around because people aren’t going 50 in a 30. The cops actually wander around and talk to people, helping them instead of being seen as ticket-givers and a potential bad day.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by throwaway0a5e on Thursday July 28, 2022 @06:34AM (#32262631)
Because a camera doesn't have a boot to lick.

The police get a lot more leeway to do bad things because some percent of society just defaults to giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by colinmhayes on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:15PM (#32253275)
I live in Chicago. It’s not uncommon for police to just not show up when you call in a non violent property crime. If that happens you can go to the station and fill out a report but they won’t actually do any investigating. Sometimes they’ll be honest and say this isn’t going to go anywhere, but usually you’ll just get ghosted.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by jlarocco on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:34PM (#32253580)
Here in Boulder most property crimes are ignored by the police. They'll file a report to give to your insurance company, but they'll flat out tell you that they're not going to do anything.

I think it's a few things contributing to it. First is not having enough man power. And also a lot of stuff isn't worth the expense of investigating. A stolen laptop, phone, or bike just isn't worth the cost of detectives hunting it down. $20k of police work to get a $1000 laptop doesn't make much sense.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by heavyset_go on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:39PM (#32253672)
And yet they choose to go after people for $20 worth of weed, coke, MDMA, etc. It's not about cost, it's about police discretion when it comes to the crimes they choose to investigate or the laws they choose to enforce.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by uoaei on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @02:02PM (#32254078)
Putting that body in a jail cell or prison is worth much more than $20 to those who have influence over how police spend their time. That's the point.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by sgjohnson on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @02:07PM (#32254145)
Because it’s easy to prosecute. You got the suspect dead to rights, with $20 worth of whatever on their person.

And it’s not like those cases even go to trial. I don’t have the exact data on hand, but I’d be seriously surprised if >90% of small-time drug crimes ended up with a plea deal that most of the time doesn’t even involve pleading guilty to a felony.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by heavyset_go on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @02:08PM (#32254174)
> Because it’s easy to prosecute. You got the suspect dead to rights, with $20 worth of whatever on their person.

Police regularly spend countless man-hours investigating people for selling $20 worth of marijuana. Those are not open and shut cases, they have to spend time building cases, use confidential informants or undercover officers to gather damning evidence that won't be thrown out in court, etc.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by Innominate on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @02:56PM (#32254976)
Drug cases mean seizing assets.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by heavyset_go on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @03:09PM (#32255214)
They regularly go after teens and young people with no assets who are selling pot to their friends.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by sgjohnson on Thursday July 28, 2022 @03:19AM (#32261388)
And they cop a plea and tell them where they got the weed from in the first place.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by lovich on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:22PM (#32253369)
> I assume it could be a manpower issue, if it is a city with more pressing issues, or a city without a detective unit maybe, but outright saying no is hard to justify.

Why would they need to justify anything? They have no one to answer to. Look at groups like the Uvalde police who are internationally known fuckups at this point and they’re still just throwing other people under the bus left and right in response. The police only do their job when they feel like it and that’s usually never unless it’s writing down that they went to guard a construction site for the overtime pay.

Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by heavyset_go on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @01:27PM (#32253455)
They get more state funding, grants and incentives for focusing on things like drug crimes. Enforcement and investigation of crimes are completely at their discretion, so they choose to go after "sexier" and "fun" crimes and criminals.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by Thorrez on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @12:27PM (#32252558)
Hmm, I think you're right. I was confused by the phrase "warrant or no", thinking it meant hedora had tried to get data both with and without a warrant and neither worked.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by copperbrick25 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @12:28PM (#32252583)
Since when does police issue warrants? A warrant is issued by a judge, unless it somehow works differently in the US. I assume police just didn't do anything with that warrant.
Re:Google’s Nest will provide data to police without a warrant by tomschlick on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @12:52PM (#32252913)
Police request warrants. Judges approve and sign said warrants and they then become legally executable.