> I was so stupid I actually thought they'd call me on Monday and ask me to come back because this was so out of character for how my friends normally treated me. Man I was such an idiot...

This doesn't sound like you're an idiot to me, it sounds like modern corporations are fucked up and we've just gotten used to it. Your reaction was pretty normal for someone who hadn't seen it before.

This is why I don’t work at a corporation, because the entire model is awful. It’s great at making money, but that’s about the only redeeming quality as far as I’m concerned. If corporations were countries, they would be dictatorships. If corporations are people as the Supreme Court would have us believe, they are most certainly psychopaths.

As much as people complain about academia here, I’ve found a home where layoffs don’t have to happen. There’s a permanent home here for people with tenure, guaranteed for life. We vote on who our boss is and they serve a limited term, after which they return to the rank and file. We have a democratic body that has power at the university level and we all get a vote. We vote on practically every decision made in the department.

And even if you don’t have tenure and there is no need for you in the future, you don’t find out about that on Friday with your income, healthcare, relationships, and housing all in question by Monday. How anxiety inducing! We tell you at least a semester in advance instead of escorting you out like a potential arsonist looking to burn the place to the ground. And imagine that, the place is still standing.

Don’t get me wrong there’s a lot wrong with the model at many levels — it’s political and dogmatic, inefficient and bureaucratic. But at least it’s a different model that doesn’t have to be cruel by nature.

From what I hear from other academics on here, that world is way more cutthroat. There is even a saying "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low."

Perhaps you lucked out?

I think academia is pretty sweet for the people with tenure, agreed. It's just hell for the postdocs, lecturers, adjuncts, ph.d. students without funding, etc., who have no stability, no voice, and paltry income in the system.

As someone who was told at the beginning of the term that he would have no job at the end of it, I'm not sure that foreknowledge was really less anxiety inducing than being told with no warning. It was more like knowing the end of the world was coming, and you were powerless to change it. And equally cruel, I'd say.

Adjuncts and postdocs yes. Ph.D. students without funding... quit now, that's a really bad deal.

But lecturers not so much anymore, that position is changing across academia. I'm a lecturer and I have a renewable 5 year contract where I'm guaranteed a job for that time. That's more job stability than most people have, where they can be canned on any given Friday. As far as voice, lecturers have a vote in the faculty senate, and they have a vote in our department. They even have a vote in choosing our chair! How many workers get a vote in choosing their boss? Lecturers can even become chair or vice chair if they want; our current vice chair was a lecturer. As far as income, it's definitely lower than industry and tenured faculty, but lecturers also have a full 4 months off every year, which is something money can't buy in almost any profession. YMMV at your school, but like I said, the lecturer role is becoming much more attractive at many schools.

> It was more like knowing the end of the world was coming, and you were powerless to change it. And equally cruel, I'd say.

Help me try to understand, what would not be cruel? The tone of this thread seems to be that canning a worker with not enough warning is cruel, but you're saying too much warning is just as cruel? You're given 14 weeks to find a new job, and they'll pay you that entire time. It's pretty much the softest let-go I can think of. What process would you prefer?

I found my experience with academia to be just as anxiety inducing. Fledgling lab, a half dozen PhD candidates and a boss who really wanted funding. Many they were all stressed about getting papers accepted, getting grants and so forth. And very personally, you know it was up to them to get it done.

At least at the company I don't have to worry about that shit as directly as a worker.

There are always stresses at work relating to the job that needs to be done, sure. I guess if you want to be a worker then academia would be stressful, because the job of professor is more like startup founder than employee.

While applying for grants can be stressful if you don’t get one, there’s always another. You get 3 attempts to apply for a CAREER award! The same goes for papers; if it’s rejected just shop it at the next venue and it’ll be accepted eventually if the research is quality. It can be stressful but no single thing is ever do or die. They say “publish ir perish” but academia is filled with 2nd and 3rd chances. I feel like a lot of the stress is self inflicted by type-a personalities who need to be perfect all the time, people who never got a B in their lives.

Even on tenure track, you know you’re guaranteed a job for 6 years as long as you are trying and making some progress. But if you aren’t performing at the level of getting tenure, that’s made clear way ahead of time in the (rare) cases I’ve seen in my department.

Well many corporations are terrible, but there are underlying issues as well (from a US standpoint anyway) such as a litigious society, companies must be guarded in communications around terminations as the employees may sue and any communications will be used in court against the company, also providing "notice" which is different from severance is generally ill advised, I would encourage companies to provide severance packages, but rarely "notice", specifically in a highly sensitive roles like Sysadmin or Dev. as the number of storied around data and IP sabotage and theft are pretty well known, severance softens the blow economically for the outgoing employee(s) while protecting the company.

There are many other things as well

Thanks for sharing your experience with such honesty. I don’t think you’re an idiot for how you handled the situation. You just didn’t know better and that’s simply unfortunate. It’s amazing that you pulled yourself out of that rut.

I’ve not been laid off as part of a mass layoff, but I have been put on an impossible PiP because my new manager was not able to manipulate me despite his best efforts. At the time, I had no clue why I was put on PiP despite solid performance for the 7 months I was in the company (it was a startup and I didn’t have a direct manager for that time). I was in shock for 3 days but I pulled myself together and investigated the matter by speaking diplomatically with my manager. When I realised he could not answer any questions that would make the PiP “less impossible”, I realised that he just wanted me gone. I resigned the next day.

I look back at that layoff with gratitude:

1. I quit a toxic culture that was bringing out the worst in me

2. I re-calibrated my relationship with work. I no longer push myself all the time (at the time, that’s the only way I would relate to work - by going the extra mile every time)

3. I started a meditation practice that I still practice. It changed my entire outlook on work and life. My relationships are better and life is much much less stressful.

I have been through this too so I think I know how you felt. To make it worse for me I was on a visa when it happened to me and was on a ticking time bomb of 60 days. I even had an anxiety attack but no health insurance because I forgot to sign up for Cobra amid all the craziness. I had to interview crazily and found a job in 5 weeks and then had to uproot my entire life and move to the other side of the country for the new job. It was followed by months of drinking and depression and barely surviving at the new job.

Its been 4 years but even today I wonder if its a uniquely American issue having never faced sudden layoffs while working in SE Asia and Europe. I cannot bear this sudden banishment from the herd and having so called friends suddenly stop talking and communicating. Its scarred me and if my wife and daughter were not from the US , I would leave to go work in a different country in a heartbeat.

It happens here in Europe too - or at least it does here in the UK. I think the US might be worse for it though.

Your situation sounds absolutely horrific. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

I know someone going through something similar at the moment and I'm really worried about him. He moved to the UK for work and recently got layed off unexpectedly. Now he's in a position where he can't afford his rent and he can't afford school tuition for his son. He might end up being forced to take his son out of school and move back home which he obviously doesn't want to do as his family are settled here now. His son doesn't really know anything else and see's the UK as his home.

When I went through what I went through I just had my girlfriend to worry about. If I had a child I don't know how I would have coped to be honest. It's so much harder when people depend on you and you know you're letting them down.

Hope you're doing better now.

I wish this stuff was taught in school. This is essential knowledge everyone needs to know.

Also, your employer is not your friend and definitely not your family.

You aren't stupid.

Companies love to promote the idea that work is a second family. It isn't, it's a cut throat place, where even "work friends/family" would throw you under the bus for a promotion or a raise.

You should always keep a distance from coworkers. They could report you to HR for anything even after hours.

Highly recommend reading "Corporate Confidential"

What the.. such a short notice, is that even legally allowed?

Every lay-off at the place I worked was always companied with a thank-you speech and a farewell present. They kept working as till they found a new job as well.

It depends on the jurisdiction, but it's legal in lots of places. Even in some countries where there are employee protections, it's possible to do without much consequence. For example, in the UK an employee could take the employer to a employment tribunal.. in a year's time. Even if we're talking about a true layoff/redundancy situation, it can happen, particularly if there's a payoff involved.

I went through a Layoff a few years back (pre-covid but working remotely). Phone call with my manager + HR, all access terminated immediately (though I did get to say goodbye to a few coworkers via Linkedin). I'd been there a while so at least the severance was pretty decent and more than covered the transition while job hunting.

He is referring to a firing. A lot of people don't seem to understand the layoffs and firings are different.

> He is referring to a firing.

How do you know that? OP doesn't say whether or not other people were let go at the same time also. It could be either.

The specific situation I was referring to was when I was working as a contractor on a rolling contract so I had very little legal protections, nor was I entitled to severance. I had been contracting there for years so this came completely out of the blue.

I've had a similar things happen a couple of other times though, once during a mass layoff of the engineering department and the another time at a startup that ran out of money after a failed funding round. Both of those times I was kind of aware of the situation about a month ahead of time and was in a better financial situation so they went much smoother although it was still a very stressful few weeks.

I've never been fired, but I've seen people get fired for fairly trivial reasons. Basically, "we don't really like him and this is a good excuse to get rid of him".