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Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by dr_dshiv on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @12:11PM (#31328817)
What is a solar punk book to recommend?
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by blamestross on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @02:21PM (#31330532)
Solarpunk doesn't really do stories compared to other "-punks". Optimism doesn't provide compelling conflicts. "Nausiccaä of the Valley of the Wind" is "Post apocalyptic" solarpunk manga (and an old one at that).

https://best-sci-fi-books.com/16-best-solarpunk-books/ seems reasonable.

Reading a book on permaculture seems the most solarpunk "Permaculture: A Designers' Manual"by Bill Mollison stands out there.

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by hnlmorg on Thursday May 12, 2022 @06:26AM (#31351829)
Definitely not "solarpunk" in the strictest sense but Star Trek - The Next Generation does depict many ideals of solarpunk. Sometimes directly, but often indirectly too (like scenes at Starfleet Academy).

One of the reasons I really enjoy Star Trek TNG is that it has that optimistic of the future vs many of the other Sci-Fi shows that often focus on a more dystopian universe (even if they're not strictly "cyberpunk").

There haven't really been many other shows I can think of that have the same tone as TNG. Definitely The Orville; but that's to be expected as it's pretty much a love letter to Star Trek.

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by imbnwa on Thursday May 12, 2022 @08:10PM (#31361646)
I would add Station Eleven to this adjacency list
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by LordDragonfang on Thursday May 12, 2022 @01:02PM (#31356798)
>"Nausiccaä of the Valley of the Wind" is "Post apocalyptic" solarpunk manga (and an old one at that).

By that same token, I think I heard LoZ: Breath of the Wild described as post-apocalyptic solarpunk once

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by carapace on Thursday May 12, 2022 @01:58PM (#31357720)
Maybe I am totally mis-categorizing here, but I would say that Bucky Fuller's "Design Science Revolution" is solarpunk in spirit if not in fact. It has a similar techno-optimism with a radical non-violent revolution as it's stated goal.

> Fuller advocated the design science revolution as an alternative to politics, seeking to optimize planetary resources for the benefit of 100% of humanity. He coined the term synergetics to explain how design science could create rich returns, such as how "energy income" could be harvested from the environment. His main premise was that nature's existing and omnipotent order must be allowed to guide human designs, if they are to survive and thrive as a species. He wrote that humanity was approaching its critical test as a species, in which it would be determined whether or not man was a mistake of nature, or its greatest accomplishment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_science_revolution

There's no one book, but his "Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth" might be a place to start if you're interested.

> The book relates Earth to a spaceship flying through space. Noting the lack of any user manual to help Earthians steward this ship, Fuller offers some reflections, prognostications, and guidance, based on contemporary concepts of linked relationships, that may help in the understanding, management, preservation, and sustainment of this ship. The spaceship has a finite amount of resources and cannot be resupplied.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_Manual_for_Spaceship...

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by LewisMumford on Thursday May 12, 2022 @03:04PM (#31358749)
B. Fuller is a legend and revolutionary in a lot of ways. Have you read any Sloterdijk? He takes a lot of his ideas on and applies them more strictly to philosophy.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by carapace on Thursday May 12, 2022 @09:06PM (#31362022)
I haven't read him, I'm not much for philosophy I'm sorry to admit.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by LewisMumford on Friday May 13, 2022 @08:41AM (#31366802)
Fair enough!
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by dr_dshiv on Thursday May 12, 2022 @02:43PM (#31358422)
Love it: Solar punk is fundamentally nonfiction. Now that’s an optimistic storyline with enough tension to make it readable.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by carapace on Thursday May 12, 2022 @09:03PM (#31362001)
I think it's like making up an alternate future but one that is feasible to reach (as opposed to e.g. Star Trek) or in other words, it's very-near-future hard sci-fi imagining a world that would be fun to live in and then trying to make it a reality. And why not? Aren't we living in a post-historical age? I think the development of quasi-arbitrary niches or fandoms where people make up a fantasy world and live there makes sense. Lifestyle as art. We're presumably free of the strictures and limits that plagued pre-scientific societies, our technology has succeeded beyond our wildest dreams, it may not be evenly distributed yet but the future is here.

If you can make your art/life self-sustainable (and you're not hurting anyone) so much the better. Life, rather than imitating art, becomes it. I'm thinking of the Hundred Rabbits folks ( https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/hundred_rabbits.html ), or the hand-made sail-powered Ceiba schooner under construction now in Costa Rica ( https://www.sailcargo.inc/ ) and already under contract to deliver sustainably grown coffee to Canada next year.

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by pyrale on Thursday May 12, 2022 @06:20AM (#31351773)
Usually, solar"punk" has zero amounts of punk in it, so you won't find books similar to what other -punk have done. As they state:

> At its core, solarpunk is the ecological antidote to cyberpunk.

I really wish the people behind this aesthetic would move to a name better reflecting their aspirations. Solar-nouveau, solar utopia, whatever.

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by beaconstudios on Thursday May 12, 2022 @06:38AM (#31351950)
Solarpunk has pretty strong anti-capitalist leanings. It doesn't have the punk element of being "low-life" like cyberpunk is, but the commonality between the two genres is that cyberpunk imagines the world that unlimited corporate power would create (from an 80s perspective, hence the neon and ascendant Japanese themes), and solarpunk imagines a world where the negative side-effects of capitalism (exploitation, alienation, environmental damage etc) are mitigated. It's like the optimistic mirror image to cyberpunk.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by pyrale on Thursday May 12, 2022 @09:45AM (#31354078)
A recurring thing in punk/cyberpunk culture is that the existing system is overbearing, and can't be removed. So the punk elements live in the shadow of that system, and thrive in the cracks, the neglected parts. That's usually why (cyber)punk characters are bottom feeders that do stuff that is either not well known, not profitable, or too risky.

Solarpunk usually describe societies where the negative aspects have just disapeared, and been replaced by stuff that the genre proponents enjoy. From what I read, the claim is that the "punk" aspect is the rebellion against negativity. But that's not something we can see in their production.

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by trinsic2 on Thursday May 12, 2022 @11:30AM (#31355615)
It seems to me, or I imagine that the solarpunk vision just breads authoritarianism out of its design..
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by krapp on Thursday May 12, 2022 @07:00AM (#31352176)
Arguably, if it's optimistic, it isn't "punk." That "low-life" alienation and rage against the system is what makes it punk - the "cyber" part is just aesthetic.

Anticapitalism isn't punk in a world where the anticapitalists win.

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by beaconstudios on Thursday May 12, 2022 @07:11AM (#31352268)
This is just my headcanon but I think of the punk in solarpunk as being metatextual: it's not rebelling against its own world, it's rebelling against ours, and against the pervasive pessimism of capitalist realism. I think we need something like that in a time where most fictional futures are dystopian.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by robonerd on Thursday May 12, 2022 @01:18PM (#31357026)
Cyberpunk is nothing if not a rebellion against our own world and status quo. Liberal governments are put under the thumb of for-profit corporations, which continue to develop and unleash new technologies on the public without any thought given to the social consequences or any check from the government. At the same time, the inexorable march of technology empowers authoritarian governments and those who rebel are pushed into the sidelines to become social outcasts. Cyberpunk asks us to consider what happens if social development doesn't keep pace with technological development sprinting forward at breakneck speed. Believing social development will keep pace with technology is the essence of solarpunk. Solarpunk is a lullaby.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by beaconstudios on Thursday May 12, 2022 @01:32PM (#31357278)
Solarpunk isn't about believing that social development will keep pace with technological development, it's about imagining what would happen if it did. Its politics are not a fairytale but a call to action to divert course. Cyberpunk says "the future is just gonna be awful" and explores just how awful it's going to be (which isn't rebellion, it's apathy), solarpunk says "imagine what the future could be like if we made it better". It's only a lullaby if you believe there's no hope for change.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by robonerd on Thursday May 12, 2022 @01:54PM (#31357658)
Cyberpunk is a call to action: seek social reform before this happens. Solarpunk is the opposite, Solarpunk encourages people to believe that everything will turn out well in the end after green technology saves us from our past follies.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by beaconstudios on Thursday May 12, 2022 @02:00PM (#31357747)
They're both calls to action: avoid cyberpunk, seek solarpunk. We've gotten so much "avoid this" fiction in the past decades that people are just burnt out and actual visions of a positive future have been largely absent since Star Trek, so it makes sense to say "hey, you know all these abstract political ideas that we talk about? this is what the world might look like if we implemented them". Nothing about solarpunk says that it is the default outcome. No reasonable person thinks that it is. It's an ideal to fight for.

The era of collapse fiction like cyberpunk has only really given rise to one political movement: accelerationism. Whose defining trait is "if the world's going to collapse, we should probably hurry it along so we can see if there's anything to salvage afterwards".

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by pyrale on Friday May 13, 2022 @04:26AM (#31364761)
> The era of collapse fiction like cyberpunk

Punk was never about collapse, you're confusing that with post-apo.

Also I'm unconvinced about the political potential of solar utopias: they're usually centered on art, and completely avoid the how. So many of them draw nice-looking landscapes that make no sense: glass and steel have to come from somewhere, urban centers can't exist without a periphery, etc. All the issues are carefully avoided and labeled as "negative thinking, which [authors] rebel against".

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by LewisMumford on Thursday May 12, 2022 @03:13PM (#31358890)
Absolutely. Having an ideal to fight for and a vision of a better future are both necessary to move beyond the current system.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by LewisMumford on Thursday May 12, 2022 @03:11PM (#31358862)
Totally disagree. Solarpunk is providing an out for the future that cyberpunk warns us about. Hoplessness is endemic amongst the young people in Western socities at the moment. A hopeful vision for the future is something necessary to pervade the public consciousness and create a better future in reality. It honestly happened with cyberpunk already. The aesthetic was taken up subconsciously by designers and engineers and actualised into reality. The same could happen for solarpunk.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by 91edec on Thursday May 12, 2022 @07:06AM (#31352222)
solarphunk
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by LewisMumford on Thursday May 12, 2022 @03:07PM (#31358800)
> there’s a -punk there, and not just because it’s become a trendy suffix. There’s an oppositional quality to solarpunk, but it’s an opposition that begins with infrastructure as a form of resistance.”

> Green, sustainable infrastructure as a form of resistance. Technical systems decoupled from the ‘authoritarian technics’ that Mumford warns us about. The embracing of the natural and the technical. This idea is where the solarpunk vision really comes into its own.

Seems to be mentioned in the article why there's a punk suffix. I think it fits. This kind of thinking is inherently subversive to the power structures in place in our societies today.

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by mbb70 on Thursday May 12, 2022 @10:05AM (#31354385)
The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson is pretty good if quite preachy.

It shows how bleak things have gotten that a book about surviving the coming climate crisis seems fantastical.

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by vvillena on Thursday May 12, 2022 @10:42AM (#31354909)
The Mars trilogy from the same author is also a good recommendation. Hmm, probably his whole bibliography. Lots of solarpunk elements.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by renewiltord on Thursday May 12, 2022 @11:23AM (#31355511)
Kim's a dude. Not a big deal. Just thought you'd like to know.

I didn't like the detective-ish novel set in NYC after the climate change crisis but if I'd lived an appreciable time there I might have.

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by vvillena on Thursday May 12, 2022 @11:26AM (#31355558)
Haha, I just noticed, I got him mixed with another author!
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by dr_dshiv on Thursday May 12, 2022 @01:45PM (#31357503)
I couldn’t get past the middle. It dragged.

Does it get into the solar tech punkd quasioptimism by the end?

Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by mbb70 on Thursday May 12, 2022 @03:00PM (#31358686)
Oh lord does it drag, but yes by the end it's socialism and dirigibles for all.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by technobabble on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @10:31PM (#31335209)
Walkaway by Cory Doctorow has imo solarpunk elements, but isn’t entirely that.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by chrisweekly on Thursday May 12, 2022 @09:02AM (#31353502)
There are aspects to Iain M Banks' "Culture" novels that might qualify.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by liminvorous on Thursday May 12, 2022 @12:54PM (#31356696)
Solarpunk only really got started in the last years of Iain Banks' life, and is generally set closer to the near future. I can't really think of much in the way of ecological themes in the Culture novels, and all the special effects in them are powered by antimatter and the "energy grid" between different unverses rather than solar power.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by chrisweekly on Thursday May 12, 2022 @01:33PM (#31357296)
Sure - I meant more "in the spirit of...", re: fundamentally optimistic premises.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by germinalphrase on Thursday May 12, 2022 @12:34PM (#31356456)
Becky Chambers’ name gets tossed about, but I can’t recommend anything in particular.
Re:From Cyberpunk to Solarpunk: Technics and the Cities of t... by pkdpic on Thursday May 12, 2022 @10:08AM (#31354433)
The Ministry for the Future