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Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by agumonkey on Saturday March 19, 2022 @02:28PM (#30736323)
Man, I tried reading the bible, maybe some pages are to be skipped, I couldn't keep after 5 ... too many "don't have sex with your cousin's wife unless her father owned a goat" logic.
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by geocrasher on Saturday March 19, 2022 @02:38PM (#30736410)
My suggestion: Start reading in Matthew. Once you get through, go back to Genesis and Exodus. Leviticus is a harder read, but worthwhile because it provides so much context for the rest. But if need be, skip to Judges- it's an action packed book, and I genuinely enjoy it, as I do Ruth. If you get stuck on Chronicles, skip to Ezra. Esther is an especially wonderful book!

What I'm really trying to say is: The Bible isn't a book that HAS to be read in order. It's not presented in chronological order and every book has individual value. Once you develop a love for the Bible, then the harder reads will be that much easier :)

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by tbihl on Saturday March 19, 2022 @11:27PM (#30739805)
I'd like to suggest: 1)include Acts with Matthew for initial reading 2) get people to Samuel and Kings ASAP. You probably need to read genesis and exodus first, but after that, David seems like the archetype of God-fearing Jew, and you need to know his story.
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by geocrasher on Saturday March 19, 2022 @11:50PM (#30739916)
To be clearer: I meant to start reading the entire Bible at Matthew- not reading JUST Matthew.
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by tpoacher on Saturday March 19, 2022 @06:08PM (#30737992)
Not a bible expert, but the old testament in particular has books that are effectively 'legal' (rather than theological) in nature. The kind of thing you quote here is likely from that kind of book (and typically the kind of thing quoted in TV shows needing to show how 'silly are the things Christians believe in').

If you put it in that context, then it's not that much sillier than stuff like "Owning a pet lobster in Maine is illegal when that lobster is pregnant" kind of laws. (true law btw)

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by prometheus76 on Saturday March 19, 2022 @10:28PM (#30739484)
I would invite you to re-evaluate your position on books like Leviticus not being "theological". For example, Leviticus 16, the Day of Atonement, shows you on so many levels what Christ accomplished. The reasons many of the rules and laws are put into place is to show how reality is structured ontologically. And to show you that mixing categories can be harmful, and that fringes are necessary to keep the rest of the cloth whole. I could go on and on about this.

A good place to start is Language of Creation by Mattieu Pageau and Unseen Realm by Michael Heiser. Nothing in the Bible is there by accident. It all has meaning and connects with the rest of what's there. And the "contradictions" are there on purpose, to draw you in. Think of them like Zen koans that are inviting you into contemplation of what is meant, rather than "oh those ancient people must have missed this one".

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by tpoacher on Sunday March 20, 2022 @06:06AM (#30741445)
I'm not saying the 'legal' books shouldn't be part of the bible because they have 'no theological value'.

I'm saying that when a hollywood actor in a film makes fun of christians and says something like "oh go sacrifice a goat like it says in your bible", they are willfully misrepresenting those verses as "cherry-picking your beliefs and conveniently leaving out the goat stuff", when in fact typically they're quoting verses of legal/historical significance, rather than of a dogmatic/theological nature.

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by goto11 on Sunday March 20, 2022 @08:56AM (#30742255)
> typically they're quoting verses of legal/historical significance, rather than of a dogmatic/theological nature

This distinction dos not make sense. The laws in the Bible is literally given by God.

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by v-erne on Sunday March 20, 2022 @06:35AM (#30741557)
Hold on a minute - You lost me here - how can description of animal sacriface on na altar not have theological nature?
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by protomyth on Sunday March 20, 2022 @12:10AM (#30740021)
Leviticus is a good book to read if you are stranded somewhere in a low technology environment that is relatively warm.
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by chevill on Tuesday March 22, 2022 @12:59AM (#30762878)
>it's not that much sillier than stuff like "Owning a pet lobster in Maine is illegal when that lobster is pregnant" kind of laws. (true law btw)

I agree about the old testament, but this is only silly when taken out of context. Long before I got into network security I worked in the Maine Lobster industry shoveling bait (which is half-rotten fish mixed with salt, lobsters love it!) into buckets and weighing/storing lobsters at a fisherman's co-op.

An important part of conservation revolves around people putting fertile female lobsters back in the ocean when they are inadvertently caught. Maine puts a lot more effort into conserving them than the surrounding states/countries do (who frequently get caught poaching in Maine waters and keeping lobsters that would be illegal to keep even if they were allowed to fish in Maine.

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by tpoacher on Tuesday March 22, 2022 @05:03PM (#30771511)
Hahah. Thanks for this.

Yes, this is kinda the point. It's the Chesterton's Fence argument. Before mocking something which appears silly, try to find out the reason it was created in the first place. Maybe there was good reason, maybe that reason still holds, maybe it doesn't.

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by agumonkey on Saturday March 19, 2022 @06:55PM (#30738317)
Yes, and I don't think anybody reached enlightenment after an encounter with Maine law books
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by Double_a_92 on Saturday March 19, 2022 @03:01PM (#30736653)
Yeah I'm also slightly confused by those comments. I tried reading it from start to end, and it wasn't that enjoyable. It was mostly lost listings of names about peoples grand grand parents... and things that didn't really fit what was say two sentences ago.

Am I missing the "proper" way of reading it? But if there is, that would eventually just leave to cherry picking...

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by prometheus76 on Saturday March 19, 2022 @10:34PM (#30739521)
A lot of the difficulty in approaching the Bible is that we are unaware of just how much modernism and the Enlightenment affects our worldview, and the ancient world did not see the world that way. A good place to get an introduction to their worldview is Language of Creation by Mattieu Pageau or another book called The Unseen Realm by Michael Heiser.
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by p0d on Saturday March 19, 2022 @03:08PM (#30736716)
I made the same mistake as yourself. Read from the beginning. To make it worse in 16th century english. This is a good resource, https://www.biblegateway.com/.
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by geocrasher on Saturday March 19, 2022 @05:21PM (#30737683)
I enjoy the NWT translation, it's in modern English but also very true to the original text.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/

It's also available in the JW Library app. Both are 100% free, no signups or membership, and makes reading so much easier and more enjoyable.

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by Buttons840 on Saturday March 19, 2022 @05:46PM (#30737844)
Be aware that the NWT is a translation produced by a single church, a single sect of Christianity. Those wanting to study the Bible as a literary exercise should consider a translation accepted by more than only one sect of Christianity. Another comment here suggests an interesting translation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30735352
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by Minor49er on Saturday March 19, 2022 @09:26PM (#30739151)
It's important to compare translations and understand why they exist and where they differ. Books like "New Age Bible Versions" by G. A. Riplinger give insight into changes with modern versions like the NIV and NKJV that make deliberate alterations to the text. But even still, it's important to remeber that translations like the KJV has replaced words like "She'ol" and "Hades" with "hell", or even replacing the name of God with "God".

I personally find myself comparing the KJV with the original Greek as well as the pre-Challoner version of the Douay-Rheims when I want more insight into certain passages.

Commentaries also provide interesting insights. They typically cite the translations that were used as well so you can see how their conclusions were drawn

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by kk6mrp on Sunday March 20, 2022 @01:09AM (#30740321)
I agree that there is a huge difference between literal and dynamic translations of the text. That being said, I was recommended "New Age Bible Versions" before and was not impressed, I read through the first several chapters and compared the accusations to the other translations actual text and found most of them to be blatantly false. False as in, her charts said the other translations used words they did not use. I really enjoy the KJV also but do not consider other translations satanic like the Riplinger's book attempts to portray.
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by Minor49er on Monday March 21, 2022 @11:58AM (#30755584)
I'll have to look into that further. I wasn't aware of there being discrepancies between her book and the sources she used. I wonder if it's related to some of the newer translations being constantly updated. For example, the NKJV has been revised since it was originally printed. Here's a short example showing it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD_r3_aCvsw

Another book similar to Riplinger's is "Corruptions in the New King James Bible" by Jack Mundey. The writing style is a little enthusiastic, but the author compares several editions of various bibles, showing where and how they changed over time. Both Mundey and Riplinger draw the conclusion that the NKJV and NIV are deliberately changed to mislead people, and therefore are Satanic, though neither one makes any point about the KJV's edits themselves, such as the name of God or translations of "Hell" as I've mentioned earlier.

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by kk6mrp on Tuesday March 22, 2022 @04:08PM (#30770853)
I guess my conclusion from reading different literal translations is that most of them do not deviate significantly from each other. Personally, I haven't really found any significant differences that would change a person's understanding on who Jesus was and what He taught, contrary to the point "New Age Bible Versions" is trying to make. Comparing single words or phrases between translations is not an effective way to demonstrate that the meaning as a whole has changed. Reading the NKJV, I feel the same need to honor Jesus Christ both as Lord and Savior and obey His teachings. In the end, we need to hear what we read and obey it. https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-19.htm
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by Minor49er on Thursday March 24, 2022 @10:10PM (#30797974)
Overall, I agree with this. Though there are some interesting cases that people bring up around certain translations, like certain translations referring to Joseph as Jesus's father, calling Jesus the "morning star", and ones that lend themselves more to the Trinity being real versus it not existing. Those cases are more interesting as deeper knowledge and whose debates shed a lot of insight on the history of the Bible and its translations. But overall, the teachings of Jesus and His disciples are not often debated between versions since they do not change significantly, as you've noted.
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by JoeyBananas on Sunday March 20, 2022 @12:00AM (#30739980)
The only translation of the bible that I can tolerate is the "plain english" translation. Otherwise it's just too cryptic and give me a headache
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by Minor49er on Monday March 21, 2022 @12:00PM (#30755607)
Do you also read commentaries or study guides? They can help with grokking some of the more difficult parts of the text
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by kcartlidge on Sunday March 20, 2022 @03:48PM (#30745965)
For the benefit of other readers, as is mentioned elsewhere the NWT is a translation which amongst Christians is only accepted by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Mainly because they produced it.

It's actually reasonably readable but there are differences in meanings due to the decisions of the translators. This is true with all translations, so not a direct criticism, but the NWT tends to differ on areas where the JW belief system itself differs from the mainstream. So personally I'd suggest avoiding it as it will give the new reader a very exclusive perspective on the faith.

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by kcartlidge on Sunday March 20, 2022 @03:43PM (#30745921)
I've commented elsewhere (in this same discussion), but it was a long one so in summary here's my own perspective on the order: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30745865
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by tbihl on Saturday March 19, 2022 @11:51PM (#30739924)
1. Luke and Acts 2. Genesis and Exodus 3. (1 and 2) Samuel and (1 and 2) Kings

There are lots of answers to this question floating around the thread. Maybe mine will be helpful:

First of all, so much of the Bible references and builds on itself that it's a battle to establish the initial framework of knowledge so you can try to fill everything in.

The most important question of Christianity is, as Jesus put it, "who do you say that I am?" Start working on this with a Gospel (either Mark, more focused on a clear message; of Luke, more of a detailed narrative). (Matthew was written for a Jewish audience, so the perspective isn't as helpful, and John is just different in ways that make it better saved for later.) After this, read Acts, which finishes the story begun by the gospels. If you pick Luke, then you have the advantage that Luke and Acts have the same author.

Read Genesis. There's so much to unpack in this huge book. Jordan Peterson released lectures on many stories of Genesis as early podcasts of his; they do a good job of presenting the stories in the modern day, and are probably his best work, far better than recent work.)

Exodus. It is narrative and explains God's relationship with the Jewish people.

If you want to keep digging into that story, you could go next to Joshua and Judges. But I recommend next reading 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings. They're the story of David, who is the archetype of a God-fearing, yet only human, Jew.

As to a "proper" way: slowly, carefully, repeatedly, with humility, and with help.

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by tomjen3 on Sunday March 20, 2022 @08:46AM (#30742189)
I tried the same, gave up after Lot's daughters got their father drunk and raped him.
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by p0d on Monday March 21, 2022 @03:45AM (#30751351)
The bible is the story of Israel, the life of Jesus, and the birth of the new testament church. It is history, teaching, prophecy and songs. The penny dropped for me many years ago that because it says it in the bible doesn't mean God is happy about it. Just as I am not happy about my own mistakes or many of the goings on in the world today.
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by silent_cal on Monday March 21, 2022 @04:20PM (#30759201)
p0d's comment is right - much of the Old Testament is an illustration of fallen human nature. It's a stumbling walk towards redemption. The characters of the OT do not always act heroically. In fact the point is largely that they do not - that they need to be saved somehow. How that happens is described in the New Testament.
Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by kcartlidge on Sunday March 20, 2022 @03:38PM (#30745865)
There are countless opinions/suggestions on how to read the Bible (and the same applies to the Qu'ran for example).

If you are totally new to the Bible the important thing is probably to try and get enough from it at the start that you'll be interested enough to continue. I've read it through many times and some/much of it is pretty impenetrable, obscure, and even dull.

So from this perspective, and note that this isn't a great sequence theologically, I'd go with the book of Acts, the gospel of John, the books of Proverbs and Psalms, and then the letters of John.

As for which versions of the Bible, avoid older ones like the King James (KJV, NKJV) or Revised Standard (RSV, ASV, NRSV); the archaic language and structure will be off-putting. I'd perhaps go with the Contemporary English Version (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+1&version=...) but the linked page will let you see the various translations of the same text using a drop-down.

There is no one ideal version of the Bible but personally I'd avoid any translation used by a single denomination or sect such as the NWT - which is produced by the Jehovah's Witnesses, and I'm meaning this not as a judgement regarding the organisation but as an example of a group whose translation has alternative readings at various doctrinal points (eg the trinity) and it is not worth getting sidetracked by theological disagreements at this stage.

Whatever route you choose be prepared for a hard slog as a casual reader.

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by goto11 on Sunday March 20, 2022 @08:50AM (#30742220)
Approach it as a collection of very different books. There is myths, history, genealogies, law, poetry, short stories, philosophy, deep wisdom and mad ramblings. The books are collected over a thousand years in different cultural environments.

If you just start from the beginning, expecting to read it as one book, you will probably lose interest when it gets into the mosaic law.

Re:Ask HN: What book changed your life? by insaider on Saturday March 19, 2022 @11:50PM (#30739917)
ahahahah that quote killed me