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Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by heliodor on Sunday February 13, 2022 @10:23AM (#30322248)
Please read this thread to see the pitfalls that might potentially lie ahead: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/24vo34/comment/c...

It's about winning the lottery but still applicable to some extent, and shows how people's lives go horribly wrong.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by capableweb on Sunday February 13, 2022 @10:59AM (#30322596)
Not sure it's actually applicable. That Reddit comment is about poor people winning lots of money by chance, not smart people earning lots of money by working. The risks are very different, not to say that the scale between 2 million and 170 million is way bigger than you seem to think.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by eli on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:05AM (#30322656)
Poor people aren’t stupid
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by boeingUH60 on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:34AM (#30322930)
Not the guy you replied too, but I don't think he was implying that poor people are stupid. It's more like people who work for their money and earn it step-by-step are better suited to manage and grow it further. Earning money gradually gives you leeway to slowly adjust your lifestyle to your upgraded monetary status.

I'm not sure this is a sound analogy, but imagine someone picking up cigarettes for the first time and building up tolerance over time as they go from one cig a day to two, three, four and so on. Now, compare that to someone suddenly smoking 10 cigs per day. The latter person is more likely to get wrecked from the side effects.

Edit: I checked your profile and saw that you're the co-founder of Industry Dive, damn. I love your newsletters and websites!...especially Payments and Banking Dive.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by toolz on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:13AM (#30322722)
If you're poor and gambling, then you're making a stupid financial decision. So the odds of you being financially stupid seem likely to be high.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by phphphphp on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:28AM (#30322871)
For most people, gambling isn't a financial decision, it's an entertainment decision. The value of thinking about winning (regardless of how unlikely it is) is worth the $1 cost of a lottery ticket, so labelling gambling a "stupid financial decision" is like labelling owning a TV while poor a "stupid financial decision"... but poor people deserve entertainment as much as rich people.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by emiliobumachar on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:27PM (#30323484)
The people who buy a lot of tickets are overrepresented among the winners, to the exact proportion of the size of the ticket pile.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by karamanolev on Sunday February 13, 2022 @04:44PM (#30325982)
I'd argue that for most gambling, it's not a decision, but an addiction or false hope financial decision. Those that treat it as a entertainment don't really gamble that much money.

Not sure if that's true by number of gamblers, but my gut says it's mostly true weighed by the amount of money gambled away. I say mostly, because we don't count rich kids / oligarchs wasting money for fun, who might dominate the value chart.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by toolz on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:43AM (#30323044)
Gambling is not a human right, no one deserves to be able to waste resources they have no matter how much they may or may not enjoy it.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by samatman on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:58PM (#30323818)
Time to trot out my favourite paraphrase of Babbbage: I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a statement.

Suppose another ape and I are out enjoying the State of Nature, and we both should have a round troy ounce of silver in our pockets, with heads and tails as an agreed convention. Suppose I were to say to the other ape, "on whose face does Fortune shine her rays?" and we were to flip both rounds, such that whomever showed heads had the better of it: were it both of us, we would exchange, but one head and one tails, well, one ape will leave the gamble richer and the other skint.

Tell me toolz, how should you prevent this encounter without committing a human rights violation? Show your work, please.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by toolz on Sunday February 13, 2022 @01:31PM (#30324197)
Why would I prevent this encounter? Did two adults consent to behavior they both felt benefited them? Who are you or I to suggest our ideals are better than theirs?

All I've said is that you, nor I, should be responsible for making this behavior possible - you seem to have misinterpreted my intent completely if you think the absence of a right is the same as a mandate against someones ability to participate freely as they wish with other consenting adults.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by kortilla on Sunday February 13, 2022 @02:16PM (#30324640)
You’re confusing rights and entitlements.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by teawrecks on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:02PM (#30323222)
What? So startups should not be allowed? 90% of them fail after all. The odds of a startup being successful is literally gambling.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by fire on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:14PM (#30323346)
I feel like the difference is that companies are generally intended to be a concerted effort of one or more individuals, as opposed to an actual roll of the dice.

Like without getting into nits, you can actually directly effect the direction and value of a company, but you can't affect the roll of dice or the output of a random number generators.

Risk in and of itself doesn't imply the entire thing is gambling; that said, investing by itself would be way closer to gambling in that context, imo

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by toolz on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:26PM (#30323471)
Are you being sarcastic? I said it is not a human right - no one should guarantee anyone the ability to start a business as it isn't societies responsibility to pay the cost of some individuals risk tolerance.

I'm saying the opposite of what you seem to be implying. I'm saying anyone can gamble or start a business, but it's no ones responsibility to make sure they have the option to do so.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by MathCodeLove on Sunday February 13, 2022 @01:33PM (#30324207)
Who are you arguing against? I don't think anyone is implying that gambling itself is a fundamental human right.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by memonkey on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:30AM (#30322892)
This applies to people who are gamblers.

Most people who are the poorest are usually the ones who know exactly where their dollars are going. They can tell you exactly how much a carton of eggs and milk are.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by odonnellryan on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:35AM (#30322942)
No. People buy lottery tickets for a lot of reasons. It is a fun bit of escapism and entertainment that costs just a few dollars.

You're making the assumption that everyone plays the lottery because they think it is a smart financial decision.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by toolz on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:46AM (#30323064)
I don't assume nor do I have to assume anything about someones intent to know that gambling is stupid. Entertainment can be had in so many forms today that even the poorest of the poor in developed countries can have choice paralysis from having so many options. Gambling is a stupid waste of resources, if you enjoy doing stupid things I have no moral/ethical qualms with your choices, but it's still stupid.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by mrep on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:27PM (#30323483)
I don't really like gambling outside of playing poker with my friends but your comment is reeking with a bias for what you define as "Entertainment".
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by heliodor on Sunday February 13, 2022 @09:51PM (#30327902)
Gambling is not a waste of resources. It is a transfer of resources from one entity to another. It's a zero-sum game.

On an individual level, gambling is roughly breaking even in the long run (say, 95% retention of the resources).

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by dragonwriter on Sunday February 13, 2022 @09:55PM (#30327923)
> Gambling is not a waste of resources.

Yes, it is.

> It is a transfer of resources from one entity to another. It's a zero-sum game.

All real gambling consumes as well as transfers resources, and is, therefore, negative sum.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by odonnellryan on Monday February 14, 2022 @08:58AM (#30332047)
What do you mean consumes?

By your definition it seems literally everything is a "waste of resources"

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by dragonwriter on Monday February 14, 2022 @10:40AM (#30333300)
> By your definition it seems literally everything is a "waste of resources"

Most activities use resources.

Many produce value and are not a waste of resources.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by heliodor on Sunday February 13, 2022 @10:39PM (#30328130)
> Yes it is.

No it's not.

Are we "debating" like in first grade or what is this?

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by odonnellryan on Monday February 14, 2022 @08:58AM (#30332035)
Gambling isn't even always stupid. There are professional gamblers who have made more money than I will ever make, and maybe more than you will, too.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by tomc1985 on Sunday February 13, 2022 @02:07PM (#30324554)
My only beef with lottery players is that they always take forever in the convenience store line.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by odonnellryan on Monday February 14, 2022 @08:59AM (#30332052)
Haha yes. I have only played the lottery, maybe, 10 times in my life. But it is fun sometimes, and in my state the money goes mostly to good causes anyway.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by hunter-gatherer on Sunday February 13, 2022 @03:00PM (#30325027)
Before I read this I was thinking this exactly!
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by HWR_14 on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:43PM (#30323653)
If I'm about to be evicted or declare bankruptcy, does having $1 really change anything? Meanwhile, does having a small chance of staying in my house change anything?

It's easy to say "well, lotteries have a negative expected payoff". And that's true, but it can still have a less negative payoff than a payday loan or having your car repossessed.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by IanCal on Monday February 14, 2022 @09:10AM (#30332159)
This is a good example of why utility curves are not, well, lines.

The utility of $2*X is not exactly twice $X. It can be more or less, and that can differ between different people.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by GaylordTuring on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:53AM (#30323137)
You mean they aren’t stupid by necessity or that there isn’t a correlation on the population level?
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by xeromal on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:44AM (#30323046)
The poster you replied to didn't say stupid. He said money coming from work and money coming from gambling are going to have different outcomes.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by jokethrowaway on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:03PM (#30323233)
That's a generalisation and it's invalid like all generalisations.

That said, it's more likely that someone whose life ended in poverty is not as smart as someone who can live comfortably. IQ generally correlates with income (you can google a few studies).

There are surely tons of reasons that can push smart people into poverty (bad health, poor environment leading to poor choices) but that shouldn't obscure the general trend.

That said, I think over a certain IQ, other traits of your personality or the environment will have the predominant effect in determining whether you'll end up poor or not.

Similarly, over a certain amount of money, I'm sure there will be more variance. Making 5k more than your peers doesn't mean you're smarter than them - and the fact that you're all able to earn a living and save some money means you're all smart.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by kortilla on Sunday February 13, 2022 @02:14PM (#30324614)
No, but they usually don’t have great money management skills due to not having said money to manage. It’s not any different than warning first time farmers about all of the ways running a farm can go bad.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by capableweb on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:56PM (#30323794)
That's not what I said either. Again, the Reddit thread is about people with a small amount of money winning a large amount of money. A person like Saurik working for a bug bounty and getting paid for it is not nearly the same scenario.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by faangiq on Sunday February 13, 2022 @03:26PM (#30325282)
Why don’t they get jobs at FAANG then?
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by slavik81 on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:09PM (#30323289)
> Whittaker wasn't a typical lottery winner either. His net worth at the time of his winnings was in excess of $15 million, owing to his ownership of a successful contracting firm in West Virginia.

That Reddit comment is not about 'poor people', though it's true the scale is a bit different.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by heliodor on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:07AM (#30322672)
I did say that it's applicable to some extent and I'd bet that extent is more than you think!

There are plenty of horror stories that are below $10 million.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by heartbreak on Sunday February 13, 2022 @03:47PM (#30325507)
> is about poor people winning lots of money by chance, not smart people earning lots of money

Assuming that was unintentional, now might be a good opportunity to reflect on unconscious bias.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by capableweb on Sunday February 13, 2022 @07:10PM (#30326991)
I come from a poor family and now my family is no longer poor because of my work. I wouldn't say I'm smarter than the average person, but somehow I'm luckier. But with that said, I don't seem to be even smart enough to realize what unconscious bias you're referring to, care to spread some light for me?
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by CRConrad on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @04:56PM (#30353342)
They use "smart" as the opposite of "poor", which implies that they see "poor" as pretty much synonymous with "stupid".
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by wonnage on Sunday February 13, 2022 @03:50PM (#30325542)
The first example he gives is an already-rich guy though
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by kingcharles on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:25AM (#30322838)
Wow, that's depressing.

I was in jail with a guy who was a total mess. Nice, but seemed pretty mentally-disabled.

One day a new guy came on the block. "Wow, what is George doing in here?" "You know him?" "Yeah, I know him. He is one of the greatest musicians I ever met. He can play any instrument like a savant. I knew him a few years ago, just after he inherited $4m when his father passed. He ended up getting in drugs and everyone would hang out at his house." "Wow, who was his dealer?" "Who was his dealer?! EVERYONE was his dealer!"

I'd been keeping George in coffee, because he didn't have a single cent on his commissary account (which is rare in jail, even the worst criminals usually have someone out there). Poor George had snorted or injected $4m of drugs and everyone had sold them to him and partied with him until all the money was gone and George's brain was cooked and he went around shaking his fist at the sky until he was arrested. And not one of his hundreds of "friends" would put a cent on his account.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by jacquesm on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:33AM (#30322925)
Interesting: I knew a guy that came into a lot of money. A serious lot. And he found that he had a whole entourage of new friends. Fancy house, gurus, admirers, tons of interesting investment proposals most of which he accepted. And when he died and the accounts were made up it was all gone. Everything. Not a single person around him that did not in some way take advantage of him. I still have a hard time getting around people not being able to deal with their money, especially because in this case it was quite hard earned. Some of the hangers on still haven't recovered from the fact that their 'source of funds' has dried up.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by boeingUH60 on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:52AM (#30323130)
Something similar happened to Tony Hsieh, founder of Zappos (acquired by Amazon for $1.2B), though he still left a considerable fortune after death.

https://news.yahoo.com/zappos-founder-tony-hsieh-didnt-17410...

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by jacquesm on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:15PM (#30323357)
That's on yet another level. But the parallels are eerie. I wonder how common this is.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by sizzle on Sunday February 13, 2022 @05:34PM (#30326314)
I bet if he was allowed to pick up an instrument and play it would be therapeutic for him. Sad story, hope he bounces back.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by kingcharles on Monday February 14, 2022 @01:38AM (#30328970)
I wish he'd get a chance. The system just isn't set up to deal with cases like sad old George. I did see him get released, but then got re-arrested, which isn't uncommon for someone who's mental health issues are being untreated. I bumped into him at court and he told me that he'd been playing guitar and touring with Taylor Swift while he was briefly out, and I went along with it because it really cheered him up to have someone listen to his tale.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by nathanvanfleet on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:23PM (#30323436)
A Jack Chick track right here in the middle of a comment thread.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by dahart on Sunday February 13, 2022 @11:40AM (#30323004)
Boy do we have the strangest hang ups over people getting lucky. Your link is mostly spinning an untrue story. It’s only a tiny collection of anecdotes, and it’s cherry picking and mostly not true.

This bankruptcy thing is a myth that seems to have been made up and won’t die. I’ve looked into this in the past and the only stats I could find that back it up are based on small winnings, not large winnings, contrary to your redditor’s claims, and the bankruptcy rates were temporary. Get this: the bankruptcy rates went down 2 years after winning between $50k-$150k, and then 3 years after that they returned back to normal. The returning back to normal from a low point was cherry-picked and reported widely as bankruptcy rates going up. Misleading, right? Here’s the Florida study this misinformation was based on: https://eml.berkeley.edu/~cle/laborlunch/hoekstra.pdf

The National Endowment for Financial Education has issued a press release about this bankruptcy misinformation: https://www.nefe.org/news/2018/01/research-statistic-on-fina...

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by kristofferR on Sunday February 13, 2022 @12:05PM (#30323251)
I think this link is way more useful:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Managing_a_windfall

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by renewiltord on Sunday February 13, 2022 @03:38PM (#30325410)
Funny. This exemplifies the HN community and its distaste for startups. It’s because everyone here performs total population averages. Perhaps it’s likely that most HN members do behave as a total population average.

I am grateful for this insight.

Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by wesapien on Sunday February 13, 2022 @05:32PM (#30326303)
One relies on solving a problem and providing a service. The other one relies on having the ability to go to a convenience store and fork over the cost of a lottery ticket. Not even in the same reality.
Re:White hat hacker awarded $2M for fixing ETH-creation bug by ge96 on Sunday February 13, 2022 @04:54PM (#30326046)
wth you can get sued for making someone else look bad by being better? ha