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Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by jakelazaroff on Monday January 31, 2022 @03:03PM (#30153475)
Dear lord, that sounds horrible. I understand the reasoning, but corresponding with people — especially in formal settings — makes me anxious, and I end up composing and re-composing (and sometimes re-re-composing) a lot of my messages. The end result isn't bad, but if I were being watched and graded in real time I'm pretty sure I'd fail.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by gzer0 on Monday January 31, 2022 @05:07PM (#30155270)
This is commonly referred to as Yerkes-Dodson Law [1]. This is typically where one's performance, whilst performing a task and being watched while doing said task, will result in decreased output compared to if the individual was not being watched at all.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerkes%E2%80%93Dodson_law

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by MonkeyClub on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @03:49AM (#30160097)
Thanks for the formal name, I always knew it just as the "I can't go while you're watching" syndrome.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by dahfizz on Monday January 31, 2022 @04:00PM (#30154262)
Sounds like the interview would effectively filter out candidates that would not be a good fit for a job that is mostly corresponding with people.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by WalterSear on Monday January 31, 2022 @04:17PM (#30154525)
IMHO, to the contrary: crafting one's message is a valid process for effective async communication.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by xmprt on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @02:47AM (#30159703)
Crafting a message well is important but more often, fast writing and decision making skills are more important. Why do you think so many professors and managers write extremely short, almost informal sounding replies. If you're an excellent writer who takes 20 minutes typing up a single email and then need another 20 minutes to destress because emails in formal settings make you anxious then you probably aren't a good fit for that type of job.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by rgoulter on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @09:51AM (#30163189)
> Why do you think so many professors and managers write extremely short, almost informal sounding replies.

Because they're positioned with higher status in a hierarchy?

If a student makes a mistake, the professor merely points out the mistake.

If a professor makes a mistake, a student will at least be uncertain whether a mistake was made, and will have to go to much greater length to point out the mistake.

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by mitchdoogle on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @07:00PM (#30186225)
Short and fast emails could just as well be a sign of someone who is bad at communicating.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by Swizec on Monday January 31, 2022 @05:56PM (#30155963)
Not if the job entails writing 50 of those per day and you can’t manage more than 5
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by rdevsrex on Monday January 31, 2022 @11:43PM (#30158707)
Exactly. I have a friend who was a directional drill operator, and then moved to white collar work, and was super slow with writing letters. I think it was a him problem more than a blue collar work problem though.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by MonkeyClub on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @03:47AM (#30160085)
That's a fair point, however these 50 would mostly fall in 5 or 10 categories.

A few templates, a couple of text expanders, and a brief mentoring in soft skills, active listening, and written comms would resolve any major issues.

Granted, Gaussian distribution guarantees that the above wouldn't cover all cases.

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by lazide on Monday January 31, 2022 @03:45PM (#30154051)
Sounds like that type of job might not be a good fit for you? You’d always be anxious!
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by emerged on Monday January 31, 2022 @04:40PM (#30154858)
It might be the fact that people are monitoring how the sausage is made with the explicit purpose of judging that process.

But when working with people in the normal job, nobody is watching them type they just eat the sausage.

I can relate. I don’t have anxiety generally with work and have been praised on my interactions with customers. But I feel anxious during interviews because they are actively trying to judge me.

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by brimble on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @01:11AM (#30159175)
It's my opinion that interview anxiety is almost entirely unrelated to: how well someone works with a team; how well someone handles an emergency; and how well someone can related to and work with clients. Source: I've been repeatedly told, over decades, that I'm good or great at all those things—and I enjoy all of those things, for the most part, even when they're tough—but interviews make me anxious as fuck and I hate them (though I'm actually good at the talking parts—I just tend to lock up when someone is watching me work and judging me). It's a totally different thing.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by lazide on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @11:19AM (#30179637)
In my experience that is a lot less true with customer facing jobs or jobs where there is an element of external facing presentation (like the note above). The candidate is going to get the same treatment from every crowd or customer.

If someone is doing an internal facing role, especially engineering, it may only come up during things like team stand ups, or certain types of design reviews, or not at all. So less of a problem.

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by jakelazaroff on Monday January 31, 2022 @08:02PM (#30157260)
It would not, and I wouldn’t apply in the first place! But I could do it if I had to.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by kqr on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @12:28AM (#30158957)
I don't know about the GP, but if I interviewed you I would see that as a strong point in favour of you. It sounds like you proof read your emails and edit the things that aren't well composed. It's hard to find people who do that.

Then again, maybe I'm biased because I write the same sentence multiple times in quick succession. And I go back and re-write previous sentences if they don't flow well with what's coming next. But when people have watched me do it, they have only expressed wonder and admiration over it, never negative feelings.

What doesn't work is when someone starts verbally editing my first draft the instant I've typed it out. Yes, I know it's bad -- it's the first draft. I just needed to get something on the page to see where I should go next.

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by reaperducer on Monday January 31, 2022 @03:15PM (#30153628)
Sounds a lot better to me than live coding on a white board.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by raxxorrax on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @03:41AM (#30160047)
I would take the coding on a white board instead of answering fake mails to be honest. But the job doesn't sound too attractive if correspondence is mostly with customers. Internal mails are way more informal and quicker to write.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by jrumbut on Monday January 31, 2022 @05:54PM (#30155940)
Yeah, it's a super relevant skill and something that doesn't go away (for me) in the interviewing environment (the way technical skills sometimes can).
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by KennyBlanken on Monday January 31, 2022 @05:02PM (#30155206)
My guess is that they're looking to see if you complete it in a reasonable time period, your initial draft is at least in the right ballpark (anyone experienced in tech support, team supervisorship, project management, etc can answer common emails almost by reflex) and it appears to be you, and not someone helping you.

I would imagine that, if anything, seeing you pause after an initial draft, adjust some grammar and tone, pause...even re-write a sentence or paragraph - and then say "done"...would impress, not detract.

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by skeeter2020 on Monday January 31, 2022 @06:20PM (#30156238)
this sounds closer to pairing, which IS a real-world skill & experience for many jobs, than your typical white-board programming nonsense.

As far as your technique, drafting then editing down is a totally legit way to write. I wish more people did that!

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by WalterBright on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @02:40AM (#30159650)
The cure for performance anxiety is to do more performing until it goes away.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by dredmorbius on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @03:42AM (#30160054)
Or to find a position in which such performance is not required.

Adaptation only goes so far. More training won't turn a dwarf into a basketball centre, or a heavyweight bodybuilder into a champion marathoner. Sometimes you've got to work with what you have, both in terms of abilities and limitations.

Intellectual and psychological limitations may be less manifestly visible but are no less real.

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by WalterBright on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @04:17AM (#30160270)
Performance anxiety goes away with repetition. I have plenty of personal experience with that and so do many others I know. This is not a special skill. You don't have to be a champion. You just get used to doing the performance and the anxiety goes away.

Just like if you're nervous about driving on the freeway, or flying in an airplane.

Heck, I remember buying my first phone answering machine. I froze up repeatedly trying to record the message. After a while, that problem went away.

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by astura on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @10:51AM (#30164108)
Only if your anxiety is reasonable in the first place and your emotional regulation is normal.

I've been driving more than 20 years and almost none of the anxiety I experience because of it ever went away. If I know the roads already it's a little better, but every single day I have to power through the anxiety to get to where I need to be going. It doesn't get better.

Hotels give me anxiety even though I actually lived in a hotel for six months.

My husband developed anxiety later in life doing things he has done for years.

What you're talking about is just normal human emotions, when people refer to "performance anxiety" they are usually referring to an anxiety disorder. Crippling anxiety that doesn't spontaneously resolve.

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by dredmorbius on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @04:30AM (#30160350)
If you're in your 20s and experiencing this, perhaps.

If you're in your 50s and it's still a constant problem, quite possibly not.

Again, people aren't infinitely malleable, and don't all fit in standard packages.

Even seasoned stage performers often face crippling anxiety before performances late in their careers. Others take their own lives, often at a young age. Dick Cavett is among those who've suffered crippling depression and taken extended leaves due to it.

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by WalterBright on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @01:56PM (#30167330)
Depression is a different problem from performance anxiety.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by dredmorbius on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @02:33PM (#30167887)
I'd appreciate seeing your sources on that.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by WalterBright on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @05:02PM (#30170094)
They're distinctly different emotions. You might as well ask me for a cite that being angry and being happy are different emotions.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by dredmorbius on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @06:31PM (#30171261)
That's an assertion, not a source.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by WalterBright on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @07:46PM (#30172000)
I think you're pulling my leg.
Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by dredmorbius on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @08:55PM (#30172529)
I think you're wrong.

If you don't have a source, you can simply say so.

At this point, I'll simply presume as much and move on.

Re:The new hire who showed up is not the same person we inte... by travisjungroth on Monday January 31, 2022 @06:52PM (#30156602)
Depends on how they’re grading. If they’re just grading on final output plus looking at the work process for authenticity you’d be fine. But a lot of people would probably needlessly grade on process.