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Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by shiftpgdn on Monday January 24, 2022 @10:55PM (#30067777)
This article is a weird bit of serendipity for me as I rewatched this movie over last weekend; having only originally seen Sideways in college nearly 20 years ago. College me didn’t like wine and didn’t even really understand at the time why this movie had such rave reviews.

Now that I’m the age of the characters in the movie I realize that the wine is literally the least important factor in the movie (and also that it’s implied Paul Giamatti’s character kills himself at the end.) It’s funny that such a small subplot in a feature film can have a dramatic effect on a major industry like wine making.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by goto11 on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @06:38AM (#30070711)
> it’s implied Paul Giamatti’s character kills himself at the end.

It is a typically silly fan theory, because if that was the case, there would be no development journey for the character, making the whole story pointless.

Fan theories are often like that: "it's actually all in their head", "its all just a dream". Edgy on the surface, but really negates all the drama and and development of the story.

> the wine is literally the least important factor in the movie

Of course the movie is not "about" wine in the sense of a documentary about wine, but wine is certainly a significant part of the story and the main characters journey.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by SuoDuanDao on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @08:27AM (#30071510)
>Edgy on the surface, but really negates all the drama and and development of the story.

I've noticed that. I suspect it comes from a lack of tragedies in our entertainment, that we try to invent tragic meanings to stories intended as comedies.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by Loughla on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @10:06AM (#30072562)
To get a little darker - I think it runs deeper than that. Yes, comedy and mindless entertainment are popular, but. . .

I think the "it was all a dream" or "it's all in their head" sort of fan theories come from a place of denial. If the story is real (even in a plainly fictional movie setting), and a character shows development, learning, growth, and change over the course of whatever happens - that could have repercussions in my life. It is easy to get into a rut of behavior and to steadfastly avoid thinking about all of the things you can and should change in your life. If entertainment shows me people who actually do change based on a need to change something about themselves to become better people, then I am forced to think about that and consider what that means for my life. That could mean that I actually do need to be more considerate, healthier, or whatever it is. Whereas, if the entire story is fake, or a dream, or whatever, then how I act now is the inevitable conclusion of my life, and there is no changing.

It's easier to just hand-wave away any lessons about human behavior and say that it's imaginary.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by fineIllregister on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @12:11PM (#30074473)
To get a lot lighter:

"It was all a dream," or, "It's all in their head," are easy fan theories to attach to works of fiction because that's what actually happened. The creator of the fiction imagined it in their brain. You can trivially apply it to any fiction without any creativity.

More complicated fan theories rely on the content itself, and thus are going to change from work to work. So people hear "It's all in their head," more.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by SuoDuanDao on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @12:08PM (#30074424)
Interesting, maybe there are two factors at play - In coming to my conclusion I was thinking about a common fan theory that Harry Potter would voluntarily die at the end of the series, which would certainly be a departure from how he was introduced as the 'boy who lived'. But your analysis makes a fair bit of sense in the context of plenty of other fan theories I've come across...
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by goto11 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:36AM (#30087682)
In the classical definition, a tragedy is a story about a person of high standing or good fortune who loses everything and typically dies in the end.

In Sideways, Giamattis character starts out in a really bad place, but through the events of the story ends up in a (slightly) more hopeful place. Having him kill himself in the end instead would not turn the story into a genuine tragedy, since nothing would really be lost. That would just be a pointless story going nowhere.

Hayden Church' character on the other hand do have something to lose, so his story could have been made a tragedy.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by SuoDuanDao on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @12:17PM (#30088352)
I forget where I saw the description but I quite enjoy it, an author was breaking down stories into four general groups: In Melodrama, the hero wins. In Tragedy, the dragon wins. In Comedy, the hero and dragon overcome the root of their conflict, and in Farce they dance around each other without resolving anything.

I wasn't familiar with Sideways, but from your description it sounds like I'd call that a comedy being reinterpreted as a farce. Which can be a great story form as well, but maybe it's reached for too often in fan theories because it's the easiest thing to imagine after melodrama.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by RichardCA on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @01:26AM (#30068816)
Wine is important because Miles is using his love of wine as a cover for his alcoholism. For the first half of the movie Miles is a basket case while Jack seems to have everything together, but as the plot progresses we see Miles gradually starting to come out of his neuroticism and then the light shines hard on Jack's sex addiction. The movie is about the contrasts and dynamics that evolve from their respective journeys.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by j4yav on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @06:54AM (#30070803)
I am surprised that a lot of people seem to have watched this movie and identified the two main characters as role models they want to emulate, that wasn’t my takeaway at all. My reading was similar to yours.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by moron4hire on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @10:01AM (#30072486)
That's a problem with a lot of people regarding a lot of movies, I've found: people think the Main Character is always the Good Guy and whatever they do is a positive model for life. See: The Wolf of Wall Street.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by j4yav on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @02:19PM (#30076628)
High Fidelity as well.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by shiftpgdn on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @12:14PM (#30074521)
They don't evolve at all though. Jack cheats on his wife to be with basically no repercussions and Miles never gets over his ex. It even becomes such an issue with his life he drinks his "crown jewel" wine out of a styrofoam cup because he sees no future.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by the_af on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @12:58PM (#30075312)
The comment you're replying to stated the dynamics evolve, and that is true.

In my own reading of the movie, while Jack learns nothing and even earns a reprieve, Miles does evolve -- though painfully and at the very end of the movie. He finally lets go of his ex wife, realizing she's definitely out of reach and committed to a new family now that she's pregnant. He also lets go of his book dream, and also the drinking of his prized bottle signals -- albeit in a humorously depressing manner -- his finally letting go of everything that got him stuck.

In my mind his walking up Maya's stairs is a symbol of a hopeful new beginning. Because this is a dark comedy/drama, it's not immediately obvious everything will work out well, but at least there's hope.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by lost_soul on Monday January 24, 2022 @11:14PM (#30067916)
Paul Giamatti goes into Virginia Madsen's apartment at the end of the movie and we don't know what happens next. How is it implied that he kills himself?
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by shiftpgdn on Monday January 24, 2022 @11:18PM (#30067949)
There are numerous hints dropped throughout the movie that he needs to die to fulfill his role in life, and the directing and storytelling is tight enough that it’s all intentional. Specifically the Confederacy of Dunces references, the phone call asking if the main character in Mile’s novel kills himself, and the “ascension” in the final scene where he is walking up a very sunlit staircase surrounded by flowers.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by carabiner on Monday January 24, 2022 @11:58PM (#30068240)
You seem to be paraphrasing what's listed here: https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/7wb8nj/at_the_...

Yeah, there are references to death and suicide in the movie, like there is in most fiction about depression. But there's nothing explicit about Miles's fate, and the film ends on an upbeat note ("Because you were wearing your seatbelt!" Jack says to Miles). I've watched the movie 20x and the stuff you list is very liberal interpretation of some scant events.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by tptacek on Monday January 24, 2022 @11:42PM (#30068107)
Doesn't square up with the novel, either --- and Sideways was shot very soon after the novel was published.

There's even a sequel to the novel with the same characters.

I'm calling "shenanigans" on this whole "Miles kills himself" meme.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by renewiltord on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @12:48AM (#30068591)
Sure, but only in the way that Jar Jar Binks is a Sith Lord
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by bee_rider on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @01:38AM (#30068873)
A massive improvement that would redeem one of the dumbest characters in the series, to the point where you just have to believe it is true?
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by thaumasiotes on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @04:13AM (#30069854)
I think most of the appeal of the theory is that you can call him Darth Darth Binks.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by the_af on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @08:23AM (#30071477)
> I realize that the wine is literally the least important factor in the movie

Agreed!

> It’s implied Paul Giamatti’s character kills himself at the end

Uh, the film ends in a hopeful note. Virigina Madsen's character states she enjoyed the book, and he goes to seek her out and is about to knock on her door when the screen fades to black. To me, it is implied she opens the door and at least they become friends again, if not a couple.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by misiti3780 on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @12:02PM (#30074351)
I know, I have no clue what that comment is about. If he killed himself I certainly missed that.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by tptacek on Monday January 24, 2022 @11:12PM (#30067904)
The case for Miles killing himself at the end of Sideways seems really weak.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by pseingatl on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @01:13AM (#30068743)
There are two sequels. He didn't kill himself.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by jb1991 on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @01:57AM (#30068967)
What sequels?!
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by pseingatl on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @06:08AM (#30070520)
Two novels followed the original. They're both available on Amazon. Both have wine themes as well.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by Apocryphon on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @02:27AM (#30069163)
The article features an image from one of them.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by dagurp on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @02:34AM (#30069200)
Spider Man 2?
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by throwaway984393 on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @10:08AM (#30072589)
Miles really took an edgy turn with that barbed wire face tattoo
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by jb1991 on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @02:35AM (#30069207)
No it doesn’t.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by brigandish on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @01:49AM (#30068924)
> it’s implied Paul Giamatti’s character kills himself at the end

I had to check for myself and it really doesn't look that way to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86sA9H1M76k

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by RockofStrength on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @09:30PM (#30080938)
Robert Wilson theorizes that each character in Sideways symbolizes a type of wine. Miles = Pinot noir (thin-skinned, great potential). Jack = Cabernet Sauvignon (adaptable, survivor). Maya = 1961 Cheval Blanc (Miles' prized bottle, actress born 1961). Stephanie = Cabernet Franc (hollow, flabby, overripe, shallow). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0mO0UhBim4&ab_channel=Rober...
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by everybodyknows on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @09:14AM (#30071980)
The screenplay suggests that Mia's judgement of him may be a matter of life and death -- but that she accepts him and so he lives:

https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.72/p2z.144.myftpuploa...

https://www.scriptreaderpro.com/best-screenplays-to-read/

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by shiftpgdn on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @12:11AM (#30082009)
I greatly enjoyed reading the screenplay. Thanks for linking it.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by supernova87a on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @12:54AM (#30068632)
Miles doesn't kill himself. Well, perhaps at most he does something like that metaphorically -- in that he says goodbye to his old life in the act of drinking that prized bottle alone in the diner.

I wrote this a couple years back on Quora when someone asked "why is Miles celebrating alone in the diner?" Maybe we've all felt something like this at one point.

>> Imagine you’ve been living the last few years with some crazy hope or dream that all the things happening to you are just a fiction and that things are going to turn around. The bottle of wine is a delusional symbol of a life that you’re going to get back — good career, a wife who loves you and wants to have a kid with you. To be opened on the day it all comes true.

Look at Miles’s eyes as his ex-wife tells him she’s expecting a kid with another man. All the hope and fictitious dreaming comes crashing down — that life was a complete delusion, like when you look yourself in a mirror and see, really see, what your life has become and that all the things you’ve been saving that bottle of wine for, just don’t exist.

Not much left to save that bottle for. No one to drink it with and toast over a fancy dinner. Just take it to the grimy local burger joint, drink in sadness to the life events that passed you by, and savor the sublime, once-in-a-lifetime taste of dreams that are dashed on the roadside.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by auggierose on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @02:23AM (#30069145)
I watched this movie a long time ago. But I am 100% sure: No such thing is implied.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by baby on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @12:13AM (#30068357)
There’s def. no such implying at the end
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by psyc on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @02:31AM (#30069180)
> and also that it’s implied Paul Giamatti’s character kills himself at the end

No it isn't.

Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by pstuart on Monday January 24, 2022 @11:10PM (#30067891)
Ow. Spoiler alert.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by itisit on Monday January 24, 2022 @11:54PM (#30068193)
Don’t worry, it’s not a spoiler. More like irrelevant internet fan theory. I’d enjoy the film free of this taint.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by Godel_unicode on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @12:46AM (#30068575)
Sideways came out in '04. If you had it ruined for you in 2022, that's on you.
Re:A “Sideways” supply response in California winegrapes by mprovost on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @01:49AM (#30068921)
My new metric for whether it’s too soon to discuss something: can you uproot a vineyard, plant new vines, wait 5 years for them to grow and then harvest.