And I keep stumbling upon the same issue when I want to buy tools, electronics and sports equipments: You only have a choice between very cheap stuff that will clearly not do the job or won't do it for long, or very expensive (sometimes overpriced) high-end equipment. There is almost no middle ground, no places for product who are not top notch quality with the latest technology, but will do a solid job if you don't need the latest and greatest. There is the second hand market, but it is a hit a miss, and not a reliable supplier either.
And if there is those "middle-ground" product, you often only find them in limited quantity in specialized store, often only on the internet.
Absent is any ground between cheap garbage and expensive shit that actually works. Some products are in that middle-ground price range, but they're actually cheap garbage that's been marked up to rip you off.
This seems to have increased over time, especially as factories became better able to produce goods that use barely enough material to work at all, without a too-high defect rate. I wonder sometimes how much inflation this is masking—goods stay the same price or even get somewhat cheaper, but are significantly worse than before.
I've wondered this too. So many electronics or appliances from the 1970s are still working (I own some). Good luck finding that quality today. In effect, companies were smart enough to realize they don't have to bring costs down, they can just screw you on longevity and you'll have to come crawling back in a year or two. In effect, things are "cheaper" on the surface but more expensive over time. Not to mention the effect this has on landfills and pollution. It takes just as much gas to ship a 1970s stove as a 2020 one, but the 1970s one is still working and the 2020 one is replaced in three years.
My dad was in the trades and he bought "good stuff" for his actual trade, but also bought 'affordable' stuff he needed around the house.
The idea is that if you are using a tool every day, and they break on the job it is time, money, embarrassment. How do you tell a customer the cheap saw just broke and you need to get a new one?
The "pro" stuff costs a LOT more, it will outlast if used on a regular basis, but most home owners will not reach those limits.
Tools/electronics can easily be bought from reputable providers: eu.mouser.com, tme.eu, uk.farnell.com, digikey.com, etc.. You can get a decent ratchet rj-45 crimp tool at around 40€ - like "Knipex 975110".
I think what we're seeing is a nice metaphor for manufacturing in the 1st world in general.
However, for certain types of tools/devices - e.g. multimeter, SMPS (even wall charges) I'd not touch totally no brand. An example of middle ground multimeters: brymen - they are more expensive than UNI-T, better than Fluke price/feature wise and very solidly built. SMPS - meanwell: proper capacitors, creep distance, real copper transformers. Hand tools - (screwdrivers, spanners) - Wera.
It gets harder with heavier duty tools that have to do the metal (like really) - that leaves prosumer+ stuff only - Makita, DeWalt - or straight to the pro: Hilti, Fein.
I am noticing it everywhere: clothing, furniture, cooking equipment, dishes & cutlery, even houseplant pots.
I wonder if this is a phenomenon similar to "shrinkflation", or if it's just the long-term corporate master plan.
What gets measured gets optimized. And price is the easiest to measure.
Everything else is murky to measure, and often delayed as well (like how long a tool lasts, or what that food will do to your health, or what the company will do with your data once you’ve used their app for a year or two).
The “evil” here truly is Amazon, for they, in their walled garden, really do control what gets measured. They could prevent or penalize fake reviews. But they chose not to do so.
Bizarrely if you search by price from highest to lowest looking for quality all you get is cheap looking products with no reviews that cost 150x the price of products with actual reviews for no discernible reason.
The whole marketplace is a cesspool.
The Amazon bullshit tools I bought just made a mess.
Now, all the cheap Amazon wrenches and stuff? I leave em all over!
I personally go straight to B2B for anything safety-related like my PPE.
But when the box arrived, it was an opened box with an old used and abused Nikon DSLR, parts even missing! Wow.
At least the return was painless so I guess there's that.
I try hard to avoid Amazon now. I prioritize a locally owned store if possible, second option is a reputable specialty web store that specializes in the kind of item I want. Third option is the local big box chain stores, at least I can see what I'm getting.
Mostly I use Amazon only for books these days since I figure it'll be difficult to substitute a scam item for those. I hope.
Unfortunately you're wrong, it's a huge problem for books as well. No Starch Press already left Amazon because it was the only way to prevent fakes being sent out to customers buying the genuine book. Fakes including ones where the back cover wasn't printed or everything was printed black & white, low-quality paper etc. As Amazon just mixes fake & genuine products because they say the same thing on the package it's impossible for both sellers and buyers to know what they'll get. You get what the person handling the package will draw next from the pile.
Serious question, how do you find reputable specialty web stores nowadays? (for items which are not your professional specialty, i.e. when you don't have direct knowledge of the market or trusted contacts that can recommend those for you). Trying to google for items of medium quality, you only get shady reseller shops that are as bad as Amazon third-party market, or worse.
Headphones.com - headphones, tax-free
Drop.com - general hobbyist goods
DigiKey/Mouser - miscellaneous parts
Your local bougie salon - high-quality body products (bodywash, hairspray, etc)
Bed Bath and Beyond - bedding and bath products
Design within Reach - furniture
Ubiquiti - wireless APs, PoE switches, and the nicest Ethernet cables I've ever used
ProtectLi - firewalls
Crowdsupply - miscellaneous gadgets for supernerds
--
Best way to find a good quality product is to go to the hobbyist subreddit/community for said product and see what vendor people use. Also, r/BuyItForLife.
Haven't they been having issues recently?
I don't know exactly. I believe they were trying to force cloud-signon for even locally managed devices, and since then I think I've picked up "used to be great" complaints that their quality and support is slipping (like they off-shored their engineering teams or something).
Their switches and APs are pretty good and don't require cloud nonsense.
B&H has been collecting sales tax for about two years now. Still a great place to get electronics from though.
Opening the line of credit will lower your overall credit utilization, actually helping your credit score in the long run.
Let's be serious, literally no one cares about paying tax on the rewards.
The new program is exactly the same as the old one. The backend card provider is changed.
(Sorry, love their furniture, not so much their prices.)
That sounds very much like they'd have an interest in fixing the problem. Short-sightedness does not appear to be one of Amazons issues.
- commingling of inventory means you're not necessarily getting the stuff from the merchant you're ostensibly buying from
- which doesn't really matter anyway because merchant reviews are hard to find (couldn't find them at all on mobile)
- being able to change the product being sold while keeping the rating and review history. WAT
However, I'm afraid our discussion here is far removed from the average consumer. I bet that the merchant info was made harder to find because so few people ever clicked it.
For most products I now prefer other sources where possible. However, the convenience still drives me there for many purchases. At the same time it anecdotally feels like I see more Amazon trucks come by my neighborhood. I'm sure most people fall into a spaces where they don't care enough and it's just too convenient to so in Amazon. Their great shipping and return logistics also make up for a lot. Their deliveries are so much faster and reliable than most competitors. I can order from a great vendor, but if they ship via FedEx it will take forever to get here and frequently the delivery date just changes to "pending" for weeks. This had never hairnet with Amazon. It might be fake, but I know when I get it and when it's ten stops away. If it's crap, I can drop it off without envelope or box next time I buy my groceries at Jeff's/Whole Foods.
It's shitty and maybe even offensive but so convenient.
You can. But the correct link is somewhere on the right below the "add to cart" button and not the one in the "sold by [xyz]" info.
I could for example bring forth the times some merchant attempted to talk me out of filing a complaint, because, apparently those have very real implications very quickly, with fines and restrictions being imposed by Amazon, which makes a lot of sense to me, considering Amazon is basically letting those vendors play with their "credit score" of trust.
But alas, pretending that I know this to be more than anecdotal evidence, I will not.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/whos-liable-for-d...
Amazon's market cap is $1.7T, and Walmart's is $391B. And Walmart's retail business is much larger than Amazon's. Compared to Amazon's non retail businesses, Amazon's retail business is worth only as much as it keeps people subscribed to Amazon prime.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/23/amazon-pr...
And school supplies for kids with lead
https://www.atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/ag-ferguson-amazon...
Theoretically they now require tests, although it's a see no evil approach as the vendor supplies the test result.
It has been replaced by specialized domestic shops: electronics, t-shirts, pants, lamps, carpets, bike parts, health items, food, etc. Many shops are small and located "in the sticks".
5 years ago I thought Amazon would kill them. Today it's Amazon that's gone from my shopping.
I’d add the word “yet” to the end of this statement. Many people I know have started to buy from online places like Target, Walmart, Best Buy, Newegg, and B&H Photo when possible, and only use Amazon in a time crunch or when the product can’t be found in stock.
I would encourage everyone who is frustrated by this Amazon problem to not only do the same, but also to encourage your friends to do so as well..
that seems like an ethical reason to me.
As in, the scammers could be scamming everyone but you but you'd still use it.
Funny enough, ebooks is probably where I've stayed the most solidly on Amazon.
But yes, I'd rather buy the same products from my local Walmart or AliExpress at a lower cost.
In my view knockoffs/replicas/dupes are fine as long as merchants aren't lying about it (the same applies to "IP theft").
I've been burned a few times with amazon sending me made in china knockoffs, or sending me things via "prime" that take as long as aliexpress.
> Amazon is what Canal Street was in the 90s - somewhere to buy fakes, stolen goods, and electronics that might catch fire.
This is why we can't allow the concept of mom-and-pop shops to die off... Quality of consumer goods should always outrank price in terms of importance, that's also possibly why many of the largest outlets are resorting to enabling fake and misleading reviews.
[Edit] I feel like here's a good place to sing the praises of my made-in-America, wool and cotton non-offgassing mattress. https://joybeds.com ...I think I was order #700 or something, and I feel like they're not getting the love they deserve. I'm in no way associated with this company but talking about finding quality goods and buying locally, it was really hard to even find this company, and felt like I was taking a big risk buying it online from a manufacturer with so few sales. We need more of this.
It's remarkable how, when information is so much more accessible, it's become useless by deception and fraud.
It's especially sad in that it affects companies trying to establish a foothold by providing good business.
One of the weirdest things that happened to me this year: I received a book from Amazon I hadn't ordered. It was addressed to me at my house, apparently printed off an Amazon press in Poland, but listed by a "company" in Vietnam. It was called "Daily Business Plan" or something, with a generic stock photo on the cover. Inside, every page was the same - blank except for lined horizontal rules and the days of the week, Monday through Sunday. There were no dates, no year, no page numbers. No bibliographic page. I let Amazon know about it. I can only assume that the seller was trying some kind of scam to write "verified buyer" reviews for themselves...
Are those nicknames for major retailers or are they knock offs themselves? After shopping at Wu-Mart in Beijing, I really can’t tell anymore.
> This is why we can't allow the concept of mom-and-pop shops to die off
In Beijing, I was much less likely to get scammed at Walmart or Carrefour than at the many local mom and pop shops.
But at least Target and Walmart allow you to filter search results for items sold only by Target and Walmart, hopefully restricting to items sourced directly by Target and Walmart.
Amazon has no interest in fixing this problem, because they know that well over half their "inventory" is now from knockoffs, IP theft and/or bait-and-switch scams. it's almost impossible to find items there anymore that are not fake, whether it's re-packaged hard drives or "pyrex" bowls that explode in the microwave.
One way to look at this, and the way I think Amazon must look at it, is that it's not any worse than a third world night market. The attitude of vendors in, e.g. Phnom Penh or Mexico City markets is that the very fact that stupid Americans think they're going to get "real" goods just proves how much they deserve to be scammed. Amazon is actually helping baffled Americans to finally understand what the third world has always known - unboxing is going to be disappointing. Everything you think is affordable is probably fake, and you can't trust the packaging. Only the rich get actual brand products. As America degrades, people will start to get more savvy and more cynical about this, but right now it's still a newish phenomenon and people are shocked, shocked! to find out the kids toys they bought are full of toxic chemicals that we ourselves shipped overseas for burial or "recycling".