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Re:Blender 3.0 by gtsop on Friday December 03, 2021 @04:12PM (#29435551)
Side note: It is very interesting to see how pro-blender everyone is. You know how there is almost always a group of people who will say something bad about an open source project (disclaimer: not judging the people or their potentially legitimate complaints, also I may be part of such groups). With blender, it's hard to see such a group. Maybe I am missing it? Maybe blender is actually doing incredibly well compared to othee projects? Not sure
Re:Blender 3.0 by franciscop on Friday December 03, 2021 @05:03PM (#29436209)
To be fair, Blender is better than 99% of the projects I've ever seen, commercial or not. AND they are open source, AND they have a great community behind, AND they are also great at promotional bits like this page itself, AND they are being backed by large companies.

So IMHO it's one of the best executed desktop programs while also being in a massively difficult field, and they deserve the praise. In many places there are outliers like this; Stripe for Documentation, Wikipedia for encyclopedic knowledge, Google for search, etc.

The two main criticisms that I've found is that first the interface is very confusing (but this has been improved constantly in the last 5-10 years!). As a personal opinion, I believe this video was a big inflection point (Blender seemed stubborn before the video, but this video at the very least softened the opinion of Blender): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWacQrEcMHk

The second one is that it's not "industry standard", but as more and more people are using it for hobbies and indie projects, this will def change eventually, so I'm not too worried about that as well.

Re:Blender 3.0 by themodelplumber on Friday December 03, 2021 @04:26PM (#29435747)
IMO the Blender project psychology gets this reception in part because it works very similar to general "doin' business" service psychology. Features requested are built; money requested is donated; resources are used for additional upgrades; industry-cooperative movements are made; progress is tracked, open, and accountable.

If you want a critical take on Blender therefore, for one you ought to look outside a community of business-minded devs. Look where artists hang out and you'll find a less rational take that is based on individual likes and dislikes. Where logic doesn't matter so much--it's how you feel. That's where you'll get into it. And if you look at other FOSS graphics software communities where the project lead is someone who just does whatever they want, even better, you'll find a group of users who either adapt or leave, and that's quite different from Blender's psychological development ecosystem in a lot of ways.

Alternately you could go more-business and go ask a SolidWorks user group to tell you how great Blender is. They will probably tell you how business is done properly and why the Blender way is clueless in various ways.

It so happens I ran an online community for another FOSS 3D package for over a decade. We got some people who were anti-Blender, and some who were pro-Blender. Often the anti-position was based in prefers-underdog reasons, which I understand. Even in FOSS there are some clear underdogs and people get upset when they like the underdog and continually see another project winning attention instead.

We also got some people who were pro-Blender, who thought that our community must be anti-Blender, because we were obviously "competitors in the space." In fact there was never a competitive mindset, it's more that people who lean into that business psychology of "here's how you win" think more often in terms of competition.

BTW Blender is definitely an awesome project, I've used it since 2002 and on various commercial projects in addition to hobby stuff.

Re:Blender 3.0 by marcodiego on Friday December 03, 2021 @04:36PM (#29435890)
> it works very similar to general "doin' business" service psychology. Features requested are built; money requested is donated; resources are used for additional upgrades; industry-cooperative movements are made; progress is tracked, open, and accountable.

That sounds more like FLOSS done right than most "doin' business" available these days. If most "doin' business" worked as you describe, FLOSS wouldn't have eat so much market from them.

Re:Blender 3.0 by badsectoracula on Friday December 03, 2021 @05:23PM (#29436374)
My main complaint about Blender that doesn't have to do with subjective things like the UI or whatever (which i mentioned elsewhere) is how the script APIs break all the time. I used to write scripts for it at the past but pretty much everything i wrote is now long broken and after the second time that happened i just gave up. Now if i want anything i just export to one of the formats that come bundled with Blender (most often OBJ) since these are the most likely to remain around across breakages (3rd party exporter plugins also break often) and use adhoc tools to do the processing. It does limit what i can do though.

It'd be nice if they made some sort of "stable" API that plugins can rely on in the long term, even if they had another one that is "better" (whatever their current definition of "better" might be).

Re:Blender 3.0 by danbolt on Friday December 03, 2021 @05:52PM (#29436632)
I've noticed that if someones impression of Blender is pre-2.8, they see it more akin to GIMP compared to Photoshop. Post 2.8, especially with a lot of digital artists I know, are very enthusiastic about the tool.
Re:Blender 3.0 by alvarlagerlof on Friday December 03, 2021 @07:52PM (#29437555)
Yeah and on that note I really would like a better Gimp. It's too clunky.
Re:Blender 3.0 by ansmithz42 on Friday December 03, 2021 @11:27PM (#29438692)
Give Krita a try, it is done in a similar manner to blender.
Re:Blender 3.0 by schleck8 on Saturday December 04, 2021 @07:22AM (#29440401)
Isn't it exclusively for drawing/art though?
Re:Blender 3.0 by Kliment on Saturday December 04, 2021 @08:26AM (#29440683)
Not at all, though it's great for that.
Re:Blender 3.0 by aoms on Friday December 03, 2021 @09:30PM (#29438126)
I completely agree, although GIMP does seem to be getting better as well.
Re:Blender 3.0 by jayd16 on Friday December 03, 2021 @09:04PM (#29437982)
I doubt the majority of the HN community does 3D modelling at a professional level so I assume most of this praise is more fandom and appreciation over direct experience.

Blender is indeed great but Maya is still extremely popular and many professionals happen to prefer Maya for one reason or another. I don't often see that fine grained of a discussion of media tools here.

Re:Blender 3.0 by kranke155 on Friday December 03, 2021 @10:44PM (#29438509)
Maya has been getting worse. But a lot of studios have built a lot of “pipeline” (ie automation and software to move and manage large projects) around Maya and apparently the Blender API is crap somehow (because everyone keeps telling me it is?)

My bet is Blender will become more standard in the next 10 years. It’s becoming big in gaming (I’ve heard)

Re:Blender 3.0 by shakna on Friday December 03, 2021 @11:23PM (#29438679)
Blender breaks their API. Maya breaking the API is huge news, and generally patched same-day. The APIs are different, with different tradeoffs, but the biggest by far is Maya isn't expected to break your automation pipeline, and that is worth a considerable amount.
Re:Blender 3.0 by urbdbdkxkd on Saturday December 04, 2021 @02:07AM (#29439297)
This is the major issue (along with the shitty undo system and dependency graph) As someone who develops addons they break the API with every release often entirely unnecessarily (e.g making a bunch of arguments keyword only in a random selection of methods every release and not documenting this fully).

They also break the API accidentally frequently. My favourite is that they have accidentally inverted the direction of rotation of the rotation operator 4 times since 2.8 and randomly removed one of the modes that the UV Smart project operator worked in.

The documentation is also lacking for the API and none existent for the main code base.

Despite this Blender is amazing but I do wish they were more professional. From a developer point of view the two things that would make life vastly better is if they

a) hired a technical writer to produce decent docs

b) stopped breaking the API every 5 minutes and when they did documented it properly (and in advance)

Re:Blender 3.0 by flohofwoe on Saturday December 04, 2021 @05:17AM (#29439924)
Maya requires to recompile native plugins for each new version though (unless this has changed recently?). The reason is that the Maya devs made the decision (back in the 90's) to use C++ APIs in DLLs for the plugin interface instead of a C API. Not their best decision in hindsight.
Re:Blender 3.0 by ncmncm on Saturday December 04, 2021 @06:03AM (#29440099)
That is (was) a problem if it was built with MSVC. Build it with Gcc, and no. MSVC has lately been obliged to stabilize their ABI a bit, and now plugins are more implicitly stable.

So, not such a bad decision. Building with MSVC used to be a bad decision, less so now.

Re:Blender 3.0 by flohofwoe on Saturday December 04, 2021 @09:18AM (#29440962)
Are GCC-built plugin DLLs compatible with Maya on Windows? When I dabbled with Maya plugin development up until a few years ago, one had to use a specific MSVC version to compile plugin DLLs.
Re:Blender 3.0 by ncmncm on Saturday December 04, 2021 @03:03PM (#29443825)
I believe Clang is able to compile compatibly with MSVC. It would be good customer service for Autodesk to release a Gcc-built Maya, but I would not be surprised if they never do.
Re:Blender 3.0 by dagmx on Saturday December 04, 2021 @01:06PM (#29442784)
Recompiling per version is fairly minimal work.

Having to have divergent code paths per version is hell.

Blender has a Python API. Which is arguably one of the easiest languages to keep a stable API in, since you're not dealing with an ABI.

Yet that breaks regularly.

I'm okay if I had to recompile for every version of maya I support. I just don't want to have to have to maintain tons of ifdefs per version

Re:Blender 3.0 by IshKebab on Friday December 03, 2021 @04:27PM (#29435766)
There are definitely still some issues with it (e.g. the VSE is still not very good) but they're just so damn good at improving it how can you complain? That release video is insanely professional. It's probably the best run non-developer open source project that there is.
Re:Blender 3.0 by follower on Friday December 03, 2021 @05:32PM (#29436452)
One important aspect of Blender as a project is that the technology is developed alongside a specific creative project with a specific goal (e.g. "Big Buck Bunny", "Sprite Fright").

The technology & the creative development are part of an intertwined process.

Re:Blender 3.0 by jolmg on Friday December 03, 2021 @04:22PM (#29435688)
I think I remember seeing people complain about its interface, but it's changed so much since then, I don't know if there are still people complaining.
Re:Blender 3.0 by moffkalast on Friday December 03, 2021 @04:31PM (#29435815)
Yeah they've done a remarkable job with the 2.80 update, the UI is pretty decent now.

Also its competitors are buggy-ass insanely overpriced monthly subscription proprietary editors, so no surprise there.

There are still things to complain about, like the undo speed, CSG modifier unreliability, lack of certain features, but none of them are strict deal breakers.

Re:Blender 3.0 by badsectoracula on Friday December 03, 2021 @05:19PM (#29436335)
Well, i do have complains about Blender's new interface: the new one feels "off" compared to 2.7x (something i never felt with the 2.4x -> 2.5x transition).

But it is minor... and i can still use 2.79 anyway :-P

Re:Blender 3.0 by stevebmark on Friday December 03, 2021 @06:47PM (#29437100)
I really like Blender, especially as a modeler. The only major downside is the nightmarish user interface, which doesn't seem like it's gotten better in this release. They reverse most UI best practices, for example they had right click to select by default up until sometime last year. Their panel UI system is kludgey and painful. There's lots of hidden and non-obvious functionality. The benefits of Blender far outweigh the pain of learning the terrible UI though.
Re:Blender 3.0 by symlinkk on Friday December 03, 2021 @04:26PM (#29435751)
It’s because they see Blender as “fighting for open source” against 3DS Max and the others. People do the same thing with Godot. You used to see it with Firefox before some of the recent bad press.
Re:Blender 3.0 by marcodiego on Friday December 03, 2021 @04:45PM (#29436007)
I assign Blender success to first passing the "good enough" bar and then focusing on being attractive to beginners. Once enough beginners became addicted, there was no turning back and Blender slowly started to eat other communities. Development then was financed and a virtuous cycle started that made Blender the 3d modelling tool with the largest community of users ever.
Re:Blender 3.0 by yAak on Saturday December 04, 2021 @11:50AM (#29442055)
There’s been bad press for Blender? Genuinely curious!
Re:Blender 3.0 by andrewflnr on Sunday December 05, 2021 @03:13AM (#29447659)
I think they meant bad press for Firefox.