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Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by jayd16 on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @12:29PM (#29164575)
>VR headsets are expensive

Quest2 is $299, so actually on the scale of a very cheap phone.

Maybe some things are more tedious but some things are better. Ever more ubiquitous computing and contextual/spatial computing of AR is really interesting.

You don't get it but others find AR/VR compelling and Microsoft and FB smell money. It's worth talking about why these large companies are spending the effort.

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by 2pEXgD0fZ5cF on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @03:01PM (#29166717)
> You don't get it but others find AR/VR compelling

One thing I rarely see mentioned or discussed is the "longevity" of VR interest amongst users. As a (former? I'm not sure yet) VR enthusiast and adopter on the high end of things I noticed that the novelty wore off really quickly, after ~1 year of owning my Index my usage went from somewhat regularly to barely anymore and for most titles with VR support I prefer playing them the regular way and the VR-first titles can't get me to set it up, or were "onetime" experiences (like HL Alyx, which is one of maybe ~3 VR games that really felt enriched and improved by the VR experience, in hindsight).

From friends and colleagues of mine I hear similar things, VR headsets collecting dust already.

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by allturtles on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @03:34PM (#29167094)
Carmack said basically the same thing in his Connect 2021 keynote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnSUk0je6oo

"There are no lapsed mobile users, essentially... but there are, right now, a whole lot of people that are lapsed VR users...."

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by zmmmmm on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @06:34PM (#29169019)
This is actually one of the main points of the article. He doesn't believe gaming is going to be the killer app for the reasons you cite - it actually isn't that compelling, not nearly so much as people would think. But what has changed his mind is that other applications are compelling, in particular the potential for workspaces.

So we have a weird situation atm where huge numbers of people have generically written off VR because it didn't cut it for high end gaming with them, without ever even considering the alternatives. In my mind, these are fitness and professional use.

The fact is that I can go into VR to work today and its intolerable after a short period, but only because of factors I think will be solved within the space of a few years - the resolution is too low, the battery doesn't last long enough, it's too heavy and gets uncomfortable. These will all get solved. Once that happens, VR will be unambigously a better place to work for quite a wide cross section of activities. This is the "skating to where the puck will be" that tech companies need to focus on.

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by setpatchaddress on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @03:14PM (#29166870)
That's been the story of VR since the 90's.

If you view VR as a spectrum between ViewMaster 3-D and a holodeck, we're very much still on the ViewMaster 3-D end of things.

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by bryans on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @03:24PM (#29166978)
We're really just a couple steps past the Virtual Boy, and that was 25 years ago.
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by longtimelistnr on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @06:51PM (#29169166)
While the Quest 2 headset is subsidized by Facebook it is still a mind blowing device for $299. For that price it is the most revolutionary gaming/vr experience in the last 50 years let alone 25.
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by NicoJuicy on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:45AM (#29171827)
I would name Gameboy for that
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by jayd16 on Sunday November 14, 2021 @12:02PM (#29218504)
Not sure if you haven't tried a Quest or haven't tried a virtual boy in 25 years but it's nowhere close.

You're not in a sensory goo tank or anything but for starters you can't even lift up a virtual boy.

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by Zababa on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @12:43PM (#29164756)
> Quest2 is $299, so actually on the scale of a very cheap phone.

$299 is not a "very cheap" phone.

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by evilos on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @01:14PM (#29165177)
It's a matter of perspective. Surprisingly poor people will get on cell plans with $1500 iphones.
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by rnd0 on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @07:01PM (#29169249)
Not any I know, and I am one myself.

EDIT: while you're implying they have $1500 to put down on a phone what is much more likely is that

a)They're gifted said phone

b)They're buying a used one off of ebay, facebook marketplace or similar for much much less money

c)They're using a "lifeline" phone that they've bought at a discount from their "lifeline" provider.

In none of these cases -particularly if they're getting a government subsidy ("lifeline") is it likely that they're paying >$250/mo

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by entropie on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @02:23PM (#29166197)
I agree. A phone is also quite a staple for a long time now. Smartphones were so successful because they are basically better phones.

A VR headset is something normal people are just not used to. I guess that will be that way for quite a bit time.

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by drewzero1 on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @03:23PM (#29166952)
Yeah, a $10 phone is 'very cheap'. A $300 phone is at least lower midrange.
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by Spivak on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @02:49PM (#29166545)
Under $300 is the "budget" category of new phones.
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by ziddoap on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @02:55PM (#29166629)
What companies arbitrarily categorize as "budget" doesn't really represent or communicate anything.
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by Spivak on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @03:45PM (#29167224)
My results if I Google "budget phones"

* Toms: Under $400

* Verge Under $500

* TechRadar: Under $500 with the lowest category Under $200

* CNET: Under $500

* AndroidAuthority: Under $500

* Wired: Under $500

Like you can personally decide that a budget phone should be under $200 or something but real life people looking to buy "cheap" phones are looking to pay ~<$500 for it.

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by ziddoap on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @11:35AM (#29176650)
I mentioned that companies shouldn't decide what is budget for people, and your response is to list a lot more companies and what those companies consider budget?

>real life people looking to buy "cheap" phones are looking to pay ~<$500 for it.

A good portion of the world must not be "real life people" to you. I will hazard a guess and say that you must have lived a life without much financial difficulty.

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by GekkePrutser on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @10:02PM (#29170588)
True but you're looking at the US. Here in Spain a ton of people use Xiaomi phones between 100 and 200 euro.

It always surprises me how much of those I see in the metro. I don't see many flagships at all here, many people on the street also use wired headphones.

In the Netherlands it's a totally different picture. Lots of iPhones, S-class Samsung, airpods...

It really depends on the country and their average wages.

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by pjmlp on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:51AM (#29171864)
That is one month salary for plenty of people in Portugal, hardly budget.
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by fartcannon on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @03:25PM (#29166984)
Quest 2 is 299, plus the unknowable cost of supporting Facebooks Orwellian distopia.
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by RF_Savage on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @08:00PM (#29169786)
It might be sold for $299, but how much do they cost to manufacture? Nothing else in the space with the same specs sells for anythimg near that. And that makes me suspicious about how sustainable that price is.
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by MikusR on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @09:45PM (#29170480)
Nobody else has the software and store that takes % of sales. Also Quest 2 is heavily simplified(cheapened) compared to even Quest 1.
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by vkou on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @02:00PM (#29165884)
> Quest2 is $299, so actually on the scale of a very cheap phone.

The Quest2 is $299, but how much is a GPU good enough to deliver a better than a regular desktop/laptop/smartphone user experience these days?

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by vineyardmike on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @03:12PM (#29166849)
> deliver a better than a regular desktop/laptop/smartphone user experience these days

the quest delivers an experience you can't really get with those devices, and it does it with just that hardware. The GPU inside it does what it needs to do (mostly).

Also, i bet an apple vr headset with apple silicon GPU would kick ass

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by GekkePrutser on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @10:05PM (#29170608)
> Also, i bet an apple vr headset with apple silicon GPU would kick ass

Oh it will. But it will cost almost 10x the price of a Quest 2. Apple doesn't get into something until they can do it really well and they make the most of the early adopter premium, only bringing prices down after a few generations.

Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by jayd16 on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @02:21PM (#29166166)
Quest2 is standalone and supports things like RecRoom and such. No PC required.
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by zmmmmm on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @06:37PM (#29169042)
It's not super great but I connected my Quest to my Macbook Pro 2015 and I can use it for work - multiple virtual monitors floating in space where I can edit code etc. The limiting factor is the resolution of the headset, not the GPU of the laptop.
Re:Microsoft and the Metaverse by pjmlp on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:49AM (#29171849)
In 1994 there were people playing Doom with VR headsets on Lisbon Expo (IT related).

Many of us don't get it, because we have seen the sales pitch come back every couple of years.