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Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by tw04 on Friday September 24, 2021 @10:46AM (#28643154)
Is it just me or does it feel a little off-putting that he doesn't bother to post the pre-edited photos? What the picture looks like after potentially hours of tweaking in lightroom is less interesting for the average consumer than what the pics look like without any editing IMO.

Don't get me wrong, it's still valuable to see what CAN be accomplished, but most people aren't going to spend that amount of time, so show us how much work you had to put into post-processing for those results. Otherwise it just kind of feels like an advertisement for Apple.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by hbosch on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:12AM (#28643532)
This is a professional photographer. Editing is part of the photography process, just as important as taking the picture in the first place and sometimes even more important to the end result (that is to say, a poorly edited photo is often worse than just having never taken the photo at all).

There are many, many, many more reviews out there on the internet that show casual, unedited photos from this camera. I think this person's use case and exhibition are interesting due to his entire workflow.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by Frost1x on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:44AM (#28643969)
The more surprising aspect to this review (maybe I missed this part, I skimmed) is how there wasn't much discussed about having a bigger and more ergonomic hand mount for the phone when shooting. I don't even mean with all sorts of nifty expensive stabilizers, just something to hold onto the phone and shoot better. I did see use of a small tripod at one point and a mount to a vehicle but for the hands, nothing.

Maybe I'm getting old but I find it difficult to shoot good photos even with the bulkiest of phone cases, while also being able to hit the shutter without shifting my camera drastically.

I personally use a Note so the S pen works great as a built in remote shutter (especially nice for tripod shots) but I can't for the life of me get good shots with the UI shutter or even volume/side button rockers. Sure you have voice controls or shutter timmers but timmers are not ideal in most shooting conditions from my experience, unless you have humans. You can also burst or drop frames from video but ick, shooting professional photos with a phone as is seems unnecessarily uncomfortable to me.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by vlovich123 on Friday September 24, 2021 @02:02PM (#28645802)
I haven't tried this but apparently the Apple watch has integration for showing you a preview & letting you take a photo. More expensive for sure but probably similar utility as the pen approach?
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by eric_h on Friday September 24, 2021 @02:57PM (#28646459)
it does - I've used it for properly aiming a tripod video recording setup when it was in a location where I could not see the screen (well above me).
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by hellbannedguy on Friday September 24, 2021 @12:10PM (#28644347)
I don't think I have ever seen a review of a camera done by a professional, or pretty much anyone else, that didn't include raw photos.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by Reubachi on Friday September 24, 2021 @01:15PM (#28645234)
But professional photographers who spend as much time editing as photographing won't be purchasing this phone with that intention. That would be lunacy, as their profession/hobby likely already has had them invest thousands into professional equipment.

This is directed towards those taking pictures for social media. Advertising (that's what this is) in this way implies that you, yes you, could be as good as a professional photographer. Except, you also have to dedicate the time and vast expertise, like a professional photographer would, to get pictures like theirs. They cleverly leave that part out.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by mbreese on Friday September 24, 2021 @01:38PM (#28645532)
The article has an entire section about how he often uses an iPhone to shoot for clients and specifically about how he sets up the phone to do so. I thought the "shoot mode" was pretty clever and I didn't know that you could setup those kinds of automations. It was a nice "pro-tip" that I could see myself using.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by Reubachi on Tuesday September 28, 2021 @09:46AM (#28682714)
(late reply)

I can accept that he really likes the product, but even then, the point of the article is broken.I cannot imagine any scenario in which a professional photographer would use a mobile device for legitimate client work, unless he is paid by Apple. There is no way in hell it is on par with professional equipment. The battery alone is a huge detriment to field work.

To your points, these are nice new features. That in no way means that a professional photographer should say "you can be as good as me with these new features!"

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by drcongo on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:10AM (#28643505)
He's shooting in raw, if you do that you _have_ to post process because otherwise it'll look flat and listless because raw is capturing as much information as possible so that you can choose later how you want it to look.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by amelius on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:35AM (#28643828)
They probably mean the best image you can get without human intervention, or perhaps the image you get in your "viewfinder".
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by zitterbewegung on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:23AM (#28643678)
Maybe in the future photo reviews would also include the photo in the raw format?
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by MrBoomixer on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:55AM (#28644111)
I'm curious as to what value would that provide most end users of the content? If you're a photographer perhaps you have software for processing the raw file and you want to see what you can do with a raw file; however I still feel that for most end users this would be useless. I would be one of the few I think that may play around with this.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by fermentation on Friday September 24, 2021 @12:14PM (#28644423)
Wouldn't help much for a "camera review". The raw would just be a black-and-white mosaic that would look awful. What you want is the processed jpeg out of the iPhone along with the edited ProRAW. I'm not sure if the iPhone can do this but a lot of cameras can shoot in RAW+JPEG mode.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by mrunseen on Friday September 24, 2021 @01:45PM (#28645604)
Traditional RAW* wouldn’t be a black-and-white mosaic. It just would be data. RAW’s need to be demosaiced to be seen visually, which makes it dependent on software (or algorithm).

* I don’t know about Apple’s ProRAW.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by derefr on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:20AM (#28643633)
-
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by katbyte on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:28AM (#28643730)
My dslr did that - every photo had a .raw and a .jpg but it rarely ended up close to what I’d get processing the raw
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by galago on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:37AM (#28643861)
RAW formats can/usually have a thumbnail/preview embedded. I convert all of my Nikon RAW files to Adobe DNG (Adobe's RAW format) and I have a Leica camera that uses DNG natively. When I convert, I can chose to have a full-sized preview embeded. This makes certain software give a faster preview.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by skhr0680 on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:33AM (#28643799)
Sorry If I’m misunderstanding something, but aren’t both of the things you mentioned already a reality? I thought RAWs included jpeg already, and Bridge already has an option to prefer that.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by purple_ferret on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:27AM (#28643719)
to be clear, he's shooting in ProRAW, Apple's proprietary RAW format.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by defaultname on Friday September 24, 2021 @01:08PM (#28645151)
A ProRAW photo is a DNG file, using the new features added to DNG 1.6. It isn't proprietary.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by strogonoff on Friday September 24, 2021 @10:59AM (#28643353)
Pre-edited photo is a myth. Cameras capture light values far exceeding dynamic range of any output media. Fitting scene-referred data into capabilities of screens or paper is always a subjective art and is ultimately photographer’s job.

In digital, all “unedited” means is using camera firmware’s interpretation of raw values; especially with complex processing in modern phones this isn’t a very good measure as scene recognition can be hit or miss and the algorithm is a black box.

(What could be indicative is posting scene raws alongside exhaustive development presets, of course.)

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by ValentineC on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:02AM (#28643403)
I'm guessing what the parent might have wanted is something straight out of the Camera app (or Halide), without any further post-processing.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by strogonoff on Friday September 24, 2021 @04:59PM (#28647749)
It could be helpful if one could assume if you took the same photo in the same location by the same phone, the result would look the same, which I don’t think would be a valid assumption anymore.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by stared on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:18AM (#28643615)
Sure, no photo is unedited. But there is a difference what is the effort of post-processing. Is it none, a few seconds, a few minutes with Lightroom, or hours with Photoshop?

With enough effort you can basically do whatever you wish, especially when it comes to increasing quality (see for example this one https://gizmodo.com/deep-learning-can-now-flawlessly-correct...).

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by strogonoff on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:44AM (#28643956)
It is true that there is a difference in the amount of manual tweaking, but at the same time any remaining objectivity in “unedited” phone-produced output-referred (non-raw) images is fading fast. In other words, imagine if the technology by your link is silently incorporated in the next version of iOS Camera app without you knowing—and I’m not even sure this is an outrageous exaggeration.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by qwertyuiop_ on Friday September 24, 2021 @10:59AM (#28643349)
I have an iPhone and I am always disappointed with the results when compared to a mirror less and DSLR. If you see the lions picture closely there is no sharpness. There is a lot of computational color magic that goes behind the scenes to make the images pop but when you look closer they are obviously no where close to pro-am cameras.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by mosselman on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:02AM (#28643397)
But an iPhone fits in your pocket.

I have a DSLR and I now don't bring it along anymore. I have three kids, so I already have to carry around a lot of stuff and children, so there is no more room or energy for my DSLR. My phone is always in my pocket though.

I recently invested in some phone lenses by Moment and I am very excited about them. They also fit in my pocket and I can pop one on my phone in about 10 seconds.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by handrous on Friday September 24, 2021 @12:12PM (#28644374)
> I have a DSLR and I now don't bring it along anymore. I have three kids, so I already have to carry around a lot of stuff and children, so there is no more room or energy for my DSLR. My phone is always in my pocket though.

I also have kids, and no phone without seamless, automatic cloud backups and the ability to transparently take "Live Photos"[0] is at all interesting to me now. I don't care how good the stills are, if it doesn't have those two things.

[0] Live Photos are a feature of Apple phones where it captures a few seconds of video before and after you snapped a photo, including sound. Tap and hold on the photo to play the video. They're basically magic, especially if you have kids. Like the moving photos in Harry Potter. They also make photos with waterfalls in them really cool instead of reliably terrible.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by mosselman on Saturday September 25, 2021 @03:15AM (#28651170)
Yes! Live photo's are amazing. My kids get a good laugh out of the loops you can create with them too. But I also love looking back at the live videos of a few years ago. They make a still really come alive. Great feature!
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by smt923 on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:09AM (#28643497)
> But an iPhone fits in your pocket.

this is the reason I loved the Ricoh GR series of cameras, an APS-C sensor that genuinely fits in almost any pocket is incredible, it's not for everyone but I wish there were more companies trying this, even the X100 cameras are too big for that

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by 6gvONxR4sf7o on Friday September 24, 2021 @02:24PM (#28646058)
Same with the powershot line. It’s good enough and fits in your pocket.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by noneeeed on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:25AM (#28643706)
I had the GR1V film camera. It was so, so good for taking hiking.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by aequitas on Friday September 24, 2021 @03:02PM (#28646513)
Consider switching to a APS-C type mirrorless or Micro Four Thirds. They might not be as good as a full frame DSLR, but the lenses are a lot lighter and compact. So instead of carrying around a backpack you can easily fit everything into a small messenger bag which you can easily take everywhere.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by lttlrck on Saturday September 25, 2021 @03:02PM (#28655382)
Yeah but if I was in Tanzania with my kids and taking photos of lions - I'd take a DSLR :-)
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by lostgame on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:07AM (#28643470)
A ukulele is easy to carry around, but is pretty pathetic sounding compared to a proper acoustic guitar when it comes time to actually play songs.

For the average consumer who doesn't know how to play music at all, maybe the ukulele would be a nice option. If you hand a professional guitarist a ukulele, and tell them it's a proper guitar, they will probably laugh at you.

That a ukulele is smaller is actually the opposite of what I'm looking for. I don't need a smaller guitar. I need a nice one, that plays and responds like I'd expect a guitar to.

I would never use a ukulele as a way to somehow replace a recording of a traditional guitar, even though it's more convenient.

There are thousands of photographers who feel this way about DSLR's.

If it doesn't fit your current/busy lifestyle, cool - the ukulele works for you. But don't pretend the ukulele is / can be a guitar. Popping lenses onto an iPhone camera is like putting an amplifier onto the ukulele. You're still trying to make something better that is, due to its size alone, never going to have the depth or quality a guitar or DSLR would have.

Also, I'm not dissing the ukulele, here. I'm trying to provide an example that just because a tool can work for a purpose, doesn't mean it's the right tool for the job.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by dagw on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:09AM (#28643499)
If you hand a professional guitarist a ukulele, they will probably laugh at you.

From personal experience, if you hand a professional guitarist a ukulele, he will play the shit out of it and make it sound better than you've ever heard a ukulele sound.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by selykg on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:39AM (#28643889)
Beyond that... a Ukulele, while a stringed instrument like a guitar, it's purpose isn't to replace or compete with a typical 6 string guitar. It's designed to do something different, it has a totally different tonal characteristic.

OP, is making a weird comparison is all I'm sayin I guess.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by 1123581321 on Friday September 24, 2021 @02:43PM (#28646273)
I realize this isn't the main point but the uke is kind of famous for being beloved by famous guitarists. George Harrison had a lot to do with that. He supposedly would keep a bunch in his trunk. I believe he gave Tom Petty two to get him going; as Tom told it, George came back to give him the second one because "you never know."
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by bjtitus on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:11AM (#28643517)
Damn, just throwing Israel Kamakawiwo'ole right under the bus there.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by alistairSH on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:57AM (#28644146)
And Jake Shimabukuro.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by TheOtherHobbes on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:58AM (#28644167)
The lack of sharpness is obvious. Saturated colours don't make up for it.

It is a pocket camera, and it does very well.

But I agree - it's clearly not a substitute for even a mid-range prosumer SLR.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by selsta on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:41AM (#28643931)
These images appear to be significantly downsized for the blog, you can't use them to judge sharpness.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by PragmaticPulp on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:14AM (#28643554)
> Is it just me or does it feel a little off-putting that he doesn't bother to post the pre-edited photos?

This is a professional photographer writing a review targeted at other professional photographers, so it feels appropriate to post photos shot and developed as a professional photographer would.

Regardless, the article is more about features like the new macro mode with short focus distance and the performance of the telephoto lens. Those don’t depend on manual post-processing.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by binbag on Friday September 24, 2021 @10:52AM (#28643238)
Also, the end results look quite good, but not amazing.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by smoldesu on Friday September 24, 2021 @10:57AM (#28643317)
I agree 100%. One of the biggest things I'm curious about is how bad the artifacting is on features like focus racking and the macro lens. Sure it's cool to see a photography showcase, but it doesn't really feel substantial as a review. His rhetoric is also extremely awkward, like here for example:

> As I watched this piece, particularly the interview in Cinematic mode, it dawned on me that we’re moving beyond the world of just computational photography and into the realm of computational videography. The release of Cinematic mode marks another one of those fundamental shifts where software, unbounded by the limitations of hardware, has opened up entirely new possibilities in the creative process.

This is not a new experience, it's just one that Apple put inside your iPhone. Reading stuff like this really makes me wonder how critical they're being here, because it seems like "it shoots photos better than the last one" is enough to warrant a perfect review. And if that's the case, every camera system on every phone ever is perfect and there's no point to reviewing them at all, because you can rest assured knowing your next phone will have 25% better digital zoom, or whatever.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by scko on Friday September 24, 2021 @11:00AM (#28643368)
I don't think they did tweak it that much. The chromatic aberration and distortion from the lens is still visible. Maybe a bit of colour work and changing the shadows was done. Probably still very representative of what the iPhone's camera can do.
Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by squeaky-clean on Friday September 24, 2021 @10:57AM (#28643331)
The pre-edited photos are in proRaw format, is that format viewable in a browser? Outside of posting the raw files for download, any means of making them viewable on the web would involve some form of editing, even if it's the process iOS does automatically.

I do agree though that it would be useful to state how much time and effort was spent in lightroom and PS.

Re:iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania by squeaky-clean on Sunday September 26, 2021 @11:56PM (#28666943)
Would be nice if downvoters explained why. I looked it up and you can't embed raw format images in a web page without converting the file which compresses the dynamic range.

Asking for someone to post the unedited version of a raw photo is a big misunderstanding of what that format even means.